Volkswagen investing $10-mil into US charging infrastructure

[JoulesThief]

Bueller! Bueller? Anybody there?

none in N. California

I regularly use the DC fast charger at the ChargePoint HQ (250 E Hacienda Ave, Campbell, CA) and use their 44kW charger. Charges $0.25/kWh, half the price of nrg EVgo systems. plus there are always cool people around there to chat with.

Does the owners manual recommend using DC fast chargers sparingly?

 

[miimura]

ChargePoint seems to have completed a workable CCS 24kW network from Davis/Sacramento to the Oregon border on I-5. This is allegedly the BMW/VW charging network. I am thoroughly disappointed that ALL of these stations are CCS-only and only 24kW instead of the promised 50kW Dual-Standard chargers for primary corridors.

Starting at NRG, Whole Foods, Davis, CA:
54 miles to Carl's Jr., Willams, CA
55 miles to the Olive Pit, Corning, CA
47 miles to Carl's Jr., Reading, CA
54 miles to Yak's, Dunsmuir, CA
43 miles to Carl's Jr., Yreka, CA
52 miles to Fred Meyer, Medford, OR

Plugshare.com filtered to SAE-Combo only.

 

[JoulesThief]

That's a lot of high speed charging, and VW specifies in the owners manual to alternate high speed charging with level 2 charging, every other charge. Yet their installations without level 2 seem to indicate otherwise? What were they thinking?

 

[miimura]

That's a lot of high speed charging, and VW specifies in the owners manual to alternate high speed charging with level 2 charging, every other charge. Yet their installations without level 2 seem to indicate otherwise? What were they thinking?

Actually, I wouldn't call those 24kW chargers "high speed" or Fast Charge. More like DC Medium Charge. I can see how a 50kW charger would heat up the battery faster than driving the car would. These, not so much.

 

[JoulesThief]

That's a lot of high speed charging, and VW specifies in the owners manual to alternate high speed charging with level 2 charging, every other charge. Yet their installations without level 2 seem to indicate otherwise? What were they thinking?

Actually, I wouldn't call those 24kW chargers "high speed" or Fast Charge. More like DC Medium Charge. I can see how a 50kW charger would heat up the battery faster than driving the car would. These, not so much.

So you are saying that VW is OK with using these chargers on recharges, back to back, and that it won't cause problems with battery life being shortened, that they condone the use of them, continuously, on longer trips in e-Golfs.

I can understand VW installing them, because these units are so much cheaper, per unit, than the 50 kwh versions. These go for about $6000 from BMW, $12,000 from Charge Point, and Robert Bosch is probably making them in China and relabeling them.

From what I've read on line, these units have been somewhat unreliable, right from the get go. Probably worse than the original Nissan CHAdeMo units. I've also seen and used one of these units in Thousand Oaks, CA at the BMW Design Center, and they had it wound way down on the kwh rate it would charge at, it was putting out maybe 12 kwh in DC voltage. It's my belief that this charger unit runs on the much more common 208V Wye transformers, found in Commercial electric and commercial zoned property areas.

The big 50 kwh quick chargers require 480V 3 phase input from the transformer. They are also quite expensive units, currently.

 

[miimura]

So you are saying that VW is OK with using these chargers on recharges, back to back, and that it won't cause problems with battery life being shortened, that they condone the use of them, continuously, on longer trips in e-Golfs.

I can understand VW installing them, because these units are so much cheaper, per unit, than the 50 kwh versions. These go for about $6000 from BMW, $12,000 from Charge Point, and Robert Bosch is probably making them in China and relabeling them.

From what I've read on line, these units have been somewhat unreliable, right from the get go. Probably worse than the original Nissan CHAdeMo units. I've also seen and used one of these units in Thousand Oaks, CA at the BMW Design Center, and they had it wound way down on the kwh rate it would charge at, it was putting out maybe 12 kwh in DC voltage. It's my belief that this charger unit runs on the much more common 208V Wye transformers, found in Commercial electric and commercial zoned property areas.

The big 50 kwh quick chargers require 480V 3 phase input from the transformer. They are also quite expensive units, currently.

VW has handled communication regarding fast charging the e-Golf in a terrible way. Documentation in different countries even differs. I have said before that the car should monitor itself and protect itself from any damaging charging conditions. Period. I stand by that 100%.

Yes, of course, these 24kW units are cheaper than any of the 50kW chargers. However, they are not made by Bosch and they are not made in China. They are made by a French company in France. They take 400-480VAC 3 phase just like the vast majority of other fast chargers used in the USA. Yes, they can also be adjusted to draw less than the maximum allowable power in order to save on demand charges, etc. They are also not very reliable. I think there are two charger sub-units inside and it is relatively common to find it operating at only half power, likely because one charger sub-unit is not working properly. I suppose that's better than failing altogether.

The only fast chargers that I've seen in the USA that run on 208V 3phase are the BTC dual-standard units and the 25kW CHAdeMO made by Fuji Electric. There is almost always a label visible somewhere on the outside of the fast charger that specifies the voltage and amperage of the utility connection and the DC output.

 

[JoulesThief]

So you are saying that VW is OK with using these chargers on recharges, back to back, and that it won't cause problems with battery life being shortened, that they condone the use of them, continuously, on longer trips in e-Golfs.

I can understand VW installing them, because these units are so much cheaper, per unit, than the 50 kwh versions. These go for about $6000 from BMW, $12,000 from Charge Point, and Robert Bosch is probably making them in China and relabeling them.

From what I've read on line, these units have been somewhat unreliable, right from the get go. Probably worse than the original Nissan CHAdeMo units. I've also seen and used one of these units in Thousand Oaks, CA at the BMW Design Center, and they had it wound way down on the kwh rate it would charge at, it was putting out maybe 12 kwh in DC voltage. It's my belief that this charger unit runs on the much more common 208V Wye transformers, found in Commercial electric and commercial zoned property areas.

The big 50 kwh quick chargers require 480V 3 phase input from the transformer. They are also quite expensive units, currently.

VW has handled communication regarding fast charging the e-Golf in a terrible way. Documentation in different countries even differs. I have said before that the car should monitor itself and protect itself from any damaging charging conditions. Period. I stand by that 100%.

Yes, of course, these 24kW units are cheaper than any of the 50kW chargers. However, they are not made by Bosch and they are not made in China. They are made by a French company in France. They take 400-480VAC 3 phase just like the vast majority of other fast chargers used in the USA. Yes, they can also be adjusted to draw less than the maximum allowable power in order to save on demand charges, etc. They are also not very reliable. I think there are two charger sub-units inside and it is relatively common to find it operating at only half power, likely because one charger sub-unit is not working properly. I suppose that's better than failing altogether.

The only fast chargers that I've seen in the USA that run on 208V 3phase are the BTC dual-standard units and the 25kW CHAdeMO made by Fuji Electric. There is almost always a label visible somewhere on the outside of the fast charger that specifies the voltage and amperage of the utility connection and the DC output.

Has anyone checked if the Fuji Electric units can run with a CCS plug in? Or a CHAdeMo to CCS adapter? The Fuji unit uses 208 3 phase alright. See page 12. Perhaps they use a buck to up the voltage to get to 360V? http://www.americas.fujielectric.com/sites/default/files/Fuji%20Electric%20-%20Intro%20to%20DC%20Quick%20Chargers%2012-19-11.pdf

 

[JoulesThief]

Does anyone have any new data on the progress of these DC chargers being added? Or is the budget now gone? Did BMW stop chipping in funding, or? I'd appreciate seeing these installed on highway 395 in the Eastern California corridor, and maybe to Las Vegas and Salt Lake City as well.

 

[Jaysher]

Seems like the near future is longer range cars, not more and faster chargers.

If the Chevrolet Bolt is coming out this month with a 240 mile range, I can only assume the other manufacturers must be close behind. Furthermore, such a dramatic range increase should elevate EVs from a fringe movement to a more widely accepted and adopted technology, in which case even more makes and models should be developed to meet demand. At least this is my fantasy. Doesn't it seem like this is just around the corner?

The problem with more DC fast chargers, as you've noted, is that you're not supposed to do repetitive DC fast charges, making long road trips from charger to charger every 50-60 miles destructive. (I own, not lease!)