Delayed Charging issue FIXED by software update TSB 2040470

[phr00t]

Good point, JoulseThief.

Unfortunately, this morning, my eGolf didn't charge as scheduled. I woke up to see it not charging, even though the scheduled time to leave was in about 20 minutes. I tried pressing "Start Charging", but got "Request Rejected", even though it said "Ready for Charging". Bleh. Not sure why it works most of the time, and then simply doesn't other times.

 

[JoulesThief]

I ordered a ClipperCreek HSC40 with the 15-40 NEMA plug on it, for compliance and rebate purposes. I wish JuiceBox would get their product UL listed and approved, as I spent a lot of money getting a JuiceBox PRO 40, and it sits, unused.

Getting tired of charging at Nissan Dealerships, Volta's and Whole Foods, drinking coffee for hours, while it recharges, always watching and obeying the 2 hour charge limit. Seems I am living my life in 2 hour increments. 32.5 miles per hour on 208 feels painfully slow, I can't even imagine being limited to a 3.6KW charger in public, compared to a 7.2.

Battery manufacturers need to figure out how to DC charge in 20 minutes without reducing the life of a very, very, very expensive batttery to replace. BMW's 25 kwh unit is not a solution, it takes longer than a 50kwh DC charger unit. Maybe the AC unit should run while DC charging and direct refrigeration to the batteries while DC charging?

More than anything else, I am looking forward to the installation of more SAE /CCM chargers here in CA along major interstate corridors. Slowly, surely, they are coming. Highway 101 is getting them, Interstate 5 and 395 are next. Without the charging /refueling structure in place, with standards, electric cars will be stuck in big cities, exception being Tesla's. PHEV's are NOT the anwser.

 

[phr00t]

Before I got my JuiceBox setup, I just plugged in the 120v charger & let it run overnight. I had plenty of charge for the day come morning. Is that not an option for you?

If you already have a JuiceBox, why can't you use it? Doesn't the UL listing only affect rebates?

 

[miimura]

I ordered a ClipperCreek HSC40 with the 15-40 NEMA plug on it, for compliance and rebate purposes. I wish JuiceBox would get their product UL listed and approved, as I spent a lot of money getting a JuiceBox PRO 40, and it sits, unused.

It seems a little silly to me to spend more money just to get a rebate unless you're going to sell one of the EVSEs after you get the rebate. Also, keep in mind that some (or all) people are having trouble with the e-Golf timer waking up and charging properly from the Clipper Creek HCS-40. This problem seems to be particular to that model of EVSE.

Battery manufacturers need to figure out how to DC charge in 20 minutes without reducing the life of a very, very, very expensive batttery to replace. BMW's 25 kwh unit is not a solution, it takes longer than a 50kwh DC charger unit. Maybe the AC unit should run while DC charging and direct refrigeration to the batteries while DC charging?

Tesla and other makers that use liquid cooled batteries do have the AirCon system connected so that they can directly cool the battery and other liquid cooled components like the charger, motor, and inverter. They can also use a radiator by itself to cool the liquid, but having the heat exchanger to the AC gives them a lot more cooling power.

 

[JoulesThief]

Before I got my JuiceBox setup, I just plugged in the 120v charger & let it run overnight. I had plenty of charge for the day come morning. Is that not an option for you?

If you already have a JuiceBox, why can't you use it? Doesn't the UL listing only affect rebates?

Using a Juicebox without a UL rating denies me a LADWP $750 rebate for installation of electric for recharging. Ironically, although the ClipperCreek is UL listed, it is not delayed charge at night capable.... silly LADWP and using for off hours, I am not going to plug in every night before going to bed, unless it's programmable from the vehicle software. Which is really where it belongs, on the device that recharges, not the EVSE box.

 

[JoulesThief]

I ordered a ClipperCreek HSC40 with the 15-40 NEMA plug on it, for compliance and rebate purposes. I wish JuiceBox would get their product UL listed and approved, as I spent a lot of money getting a JuiceBox PRO 40, and it sits, unused.

It seems a little silly to me to spend more money just to get a rebate unless you're going to sell one of the EVSEs after you get the rebate. Also, keep in mind that some (or all) people are having trouble with the e-Golf timer waking up and charging properly from the Clipper Creek HCS-40. This problem seems to be particular to that model of EVSE.

Battery manufacturers need to figure out how to DC charge in 20 minutes without reducing the life of a very, very, very expensive batttery to replace. BMW's 25 kwh unit is not a solution, it takes longer than a 50kwh DC charger unit. Maybe the AC unit should run while DC charging and direct refrigeration to the batteries while DC charging?

Tesla and other makers that use liquid cooled batteries do have the AirCon system connected so that they can directly cool the battery and other liquid cooled components like the charger, motor, and inverter. They can also use a radiator by itself to cool the liquid, but having the heat exchanger to the AC gives them a lot more cooling power.

Your silly notion was noted long before... One will get sold, probably the one used for the photo op. I may put it up for sale here.

 

[Slomove]

Did anybody figure out a work-around for the Clipper Creek chargers in the meantime?
I bought the LCS25 before I read about the problems with delayed charging here.
My 2016SE does not wake up when scheduled and does not stop charging when the low rate time is up.
However, when I just unlock the car it apparently wakes up enough to remember and starts charging.

This was not a big deal so far because I had normal domestic rate but now I switched to time-of-use rate and would of course like to get the best night rate.
Clipper Creek tech support said they are working with VW and promised to let me know when it is fixed but they had no idea how long it may take.

 

[miimura]

Did anybody figure out a work-around for the Clipper Creek chargers in the meantime?
I bought the LCS25 before I read about the problems with delayed charging here.
My 2016SE does not wake up when scheduled and does not stop charging when the low rate time is up.
However, when I just unlock the car it apparently wakes up enough to remember and starts charging.

This was not a big deal so far because I had normal domestic rate but now I switched to time-of-use rate and would of course like to get the best night rate.
Clipper Creek tech support said they are working with VW and promised to let me know when it is fixed but they had no idea how long it may take.

You are the first one to report that the LCS series is affected. All the other reports I've seen were related to the HCS units. I am still baffled how the included 120V EVSE works and all these other Clipper Creek units don't because it has the same logic board inside.

 

[smacdonald]

Just got off the phone with Clipper Creek.
He stated that their engineers are still working with VW on a fix- which should be software-based.
As a short term solution, he suggested a timer to be wired in-line with the charger so that can drive the time-of-day charging.

Now that winter rates are in effect, it's not so bad to manually start from the App at 10pm, so I may not mess with 240V.


2015 eGolf
Clipper Creek HCS-40

 

[Slomove]

.....You are the first one to report that the LCS series is affected. All the other reports I've seen were related to the HCS units. I am still baffled how the included 120V EVSE works and all these other Clipper Creek units don't because it has the same logic board inside.

Oh, did not know that. So maybe it is just me that it does not work....But then, the Clipper Creek tech apparently knew something.

Anyway, I read somewhere else here that setting the low-rate timer can confuse the software. Tonight I will just set the departure time to the end of the night rate (no direct low-rate timer active) and try if that makes a difference. If that does not work I guess I need to remember to unlock and re-lock the car when I go to bed.

Another experiment would be the trickle charger that came with the car. Have not used it since I got the level2 box. Maybe that will understand the night timer?

I am not sure if an external power timer would help if the car is fast asleep.

 

[miimura]

.....You are the first one to report that the LCS series is affected. All the other reports I've seen were related to the HCS units. I am still baffled how the included 120V EVSE works and all these other Clipper Creek units don't because it has the same logic board inside.

Oh, did not know that. So maybe it is just me that it does not work....But then, the Clipper Creek tech apparently knew something.

Anyway, I read somewhere else here that setting the low-rate timer can confuse the software. Tonight I will just set the departure time to the end of the night rate (no direct low-rate timer active) and try if that makes a difference. If that does not work I guess I need to remember to unlock and re-lock the car when I go to bed.

Another experiment would be the trickle charger that came with the car. Have not used it since I got the level2 box. Maybe that will understand the night timer?

I am not sure if an external power timer would help if the car is fast asleep.

Definitely turn off the "Off-Peak Power" function and just use the Departure Time. That is the way that I set mine up and it works flawlessly. Way back in May when I was working with the VW e-Golf specialist to get mine working, they told me that the Off-Peak timer function frequently caused problems.

I don't like the mechanical timer solution, especially if there is any chance it will stop the charging while in progress. It can't be good to break the connection while the car is pulling power.

 

[erwheezy]

.....You are the first one to report that the LCS series is affected. All the other reports I've seen were related to the HCS units. I am still baffled how the included 120V EVSE works and all these other Clipper Creek units don't because it has the same logic board inside.

Oh, did not know that. So maybe it is just me that it does not work....But then, the Clipper Creek tech apparently knew something.

Anyway, I read somewhere else here that setting the low-rate timer can confuse the software. Tonight I will just set the departure time to the end of the night rate (no direct low-rate timer active) and try if that makes a difference. If that does not work I guess I need to remember to unlock and re-lock the car when I go to bed.

Another experiment would be the trickle charger that came with the car. Have not used it since I got the level2 box. Maybe that will understand the night timer?

I am not sure if an external power timer would help if the car is fast asleep.

Definitely turn off the "Off-Peak Power" function and just use the Departure Time. That is the way that I set mine up and it works flawlessly. Way back in May when I was working with the VW e-Golf specialist to get mine working, they told me that the Off-Peak timer function frequently caused problems.

I don't like the mechanical timer solution, especially if there is any chance it will stop the charging while in progress. It can't be good to break the connection while the car is pulling power.

I have the lcs-20 and I am experiencing the same issues. I would have to "wake" the car up my remotely locking or unlocking the vehicle to charge. My question is if I remove the off-peak timer setting when will the vehicle decide to charge? Will it go by how much time it would take the vehicle to charge and the destination time?

 

[miimura]

I have the lcs-20 and I am experiencing the same issues. I would have to "wake" the car up my remotely locking or unlocking the vehicle to charge. My question is if I remove the off-peak timer setting when will the vehicle decide to charge? Will it go by how much time it would take the vehicle to charge and the destination time?

Yes, the Departure Time setting works by calculating the time it will take to charge and figuratively setting an alarm to wake up and start charging. You will notice that when you plug in, the car asks the EVSE to close the relay and pass power to the car. By doing this, it can see the voltage available from the EVSE. With the voltage measured and the pilot signal indicating the amperage, it can use the battery level to make a pretty accurate estimate of the time required to charge the car up to the selected level. So, before the car goes to sleep, it knows when it should wake up.

You will also notice that when it is actively charging, the dashboard has an estimated remaining charging time shown. This uses the same calculation as the wake-up time calculation.

 

[user 577]

Just got off the phone with Clipper Creek.
He stated that their engineers are still working with VW on a fix- which should be software-based.

Software on the ClipperCreek side or the VW side?

thanks!
Brian

 

[Slomove]

...Software on the ClipperCreek side or the VW side?....

They told me it is a problem on VW side. But after all that is kind of finger pointing and I consider it a mutual compatibility issue. Apparently other charger suppliers got a handle on it.

 

[user 577]

They told me it is a problem on VW side. But after all that is kind of finger pointing and I consider it a mutual compatibility issue. Apparently other charger suppliers got a handle on it.

Thanks, that's what I would expect. At the moment, I don't have a timer and I tell the car to start charging when I go to be. At 10 amps (set via car-net) it takes about 8 hours to charge my car after the commute to/from work (74 miles) so most of the charge time is in the way-off-peak rates. (This is with the HCS-40 and 2015 e-golf)

Brian

 

[Slomove]

For now I gave up on the programmed delayed charging. Actually it does not matter if car-net or the built-in menu of the entertainment system, both input options are synchronized but won't work with my L2 charger. Funny enough, it does work with the Delphi Level1 charger that came with the car (supposedly made by ClipperCreek), but not with the Level2 ClipperCreek LCS25.

I have now turned off all delayed charge programs and installed a contactor in the charger feed line that is driven by an electronic timer. Turn on at 11pm and off at 6 am. I believe somebody else here wrote about doing the same thing. Cost was about $30, works reliably and it does not get simpler. Just a bit frustrating that I had to do this at all.

 

[erwheezy]

For now I gave up on the programmed delayed charging. Actually it does not matter if car-net or the built-in menu of the entertainment system, both input options are synchronized but won't work with my L2 charger. Funny enough, it does work with the Delphi Level1 charger that came with the car (supposedly made by ClipperCreek), but not with the Level2 ClipperCreek LCS25.

I have now turned off all delayed charge programs and installed a contactor in the charger feed line that is driven by an electronic timer. Turn on at 11pm and off at 6 am. I believe somebody else here wrote about doing the same thing. Cost was about $30, works reliably and it does not get simpler. Just a bit frustrating that I had to do this at all.

the contactor and electric timer is that a diy, or something a can be bought at the store? I have the lcs20 with the 14-30 plug that i can't get to delay charge as well.

 

[miimura]

For now I gave up on the programmed delayed charging. Actually it does not matter if car-net or the built-in menu of the entertainment system, both input options are synchronized but won't work with my L2 charger. Funny enough, it does work with the Delphi Level1 charger that came with the car (supposedly made by ClipperCreek), but not with the Level2 ClipperCreek LCS25.

I have now turned off all delayed charge programs and installed a contactor in the charger feed line that is driven by an electronic timer. Turn on at 11pm and off at 6 am. I believe somebody else here wrote about doing the same thing. Cost was about $30, works reliably and it does not get simpler. Just a bit frustrating that I had to do this at all.

the contactor and electric timer is that a diy, or something a can be bought at the store? I have the lcs20 with the 14-30 plug that i can't get to delay charge as well.

I haven't done it, but I would think something like the one linked below would work for an LCS but not an HCS due to amperage.

Intermatic 30A 240V Electronic Timer @ Home Depot

You could wire it up with a plug and socket.

Molded NEMA 14-30 plug with wire
Surface mount NEMA 14-30 outlet

 

[jmonkfish]

Just wanted to report that I have an LCS-25 for my 2016 Golf SE and I'm having the same problem. I had a 2013 Ford Focus Electric which had a "Start time" which always worked for me.

I think it figuring out when to start charging based off of the desired leave time is kinda ... german engineering...

It would be nice if VW simply had a "Start" time. And the start time would be right when Off-peak rates start.

Looks like I'll be calling Clipper Creek to let them know.

Also, huge THANK YOU for those who figured this out and reported it. Without reporting it I would still be thumbing through the user manual.