Delayed Charging issue FIXED by software update TSB 2040470

[Unbeliever]

I've decided to leave it with the dealer tonight to see how it behaves on their Bosch unit.

I also gave the dealer the detailed e-mail I gave Clipper Creek, so they're going to talk to VW USA with the same info Clipper Creek has.

 

[Unbeliever]

I've decided to leave it with the dealer tonight to see how it behaves on their Bosch unit.

Well...it worked on the dealer's Bosch EVSE. It charged right on schedule and finished within a few minutes of 7am.

So now the ball is in Clipper Creek's court.

 

[sweetwagon]

Good info. Hopefully, it is just an isolated defect and you get a replacement. It would suck if this pointed to a general incompatibility with Ciipper Creek L2 chargers and e-golf delayed charging.

 

[Unbeliever]

I got a PM from someone with an HCS-60 and the TSB and it's not working with him, either.

 

[sweetwagon]

I'm eager to hear what clipper creek has to say.

 

[Unbeliever]

I'm eager to hear what clipper creek has to say.

Because I can still charge the car with the HCS-40, this has only been an annoyance and not a "oh my! fix it now!" issue. So I've been willing to help CC with troubleshooting. Every day we talk and I try a new configuration and report back.

That way they have a ton of troubleshooting data for themselves and for when they start talking with VW.

 

[Unbeliever]

So far, according to CC, I'm the only one who has complained.

If you're having trouble with the Clipper Creek L2 units and delayed charging, let them know, please.

But it's also good data if it IS working for you. If so, post it here, please.

 

[sweetwagon]

I actually asked them about this and this is what they have to say:

Hi James,

We have not specifically tested the timer functionality ourselves, as we do not have an eGolf, but the circuit card used in the HCS-40 is the same as the circuit card delivered with the 120V cordset for the vehicle. Additionally, we provided samples of the HCS to VW for compatibility testing during vehicle development. As long as the vehicle requests power the station will activate.

The HCS-40 is a great choice for the VW eGolf. The VW eGolf can accept up to 7.2kW for charging and with the HCS-40 you have 7.7kW available for charging so this would give you the fastest charge possible. The VW eGolf will be charged in about 3.5 hours from empty to full.

The HCS-40 is available as a hardwired unit, which sells for $565 and also a plug-in unit, which sells for $589. The HCS-40P is the plug in version and is available with the NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 6-50 plug. The most popular plug type that is purchased with the HCS-40P is the NEMA 14-50 plug. The NEMA 14-50 plug is common for electric ovens and is often found in RV parks and camp grounds. The NEMA 6-50 plug is common for welders or plasma cutters.

To get more information on our products or to purchase a station you can visit our online store at http://www.clippercreek.com/store/featured-products/ or call in at 530-887-1674.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

[eGopher]

I've got a ClipperCreek HCS-40 L2 EVSE with an eGolf (TSB applied a few weeks ago) and am still having the problem with delayed charging.
It does not start when it is supposed to, even if the starting time is immediate.

For example:
-weekend, PG&E's peak rates are between 3pm and 7pm.
I set charging location to charge between 7pm and 3pm on weekends.
-weekdays, off-peak is between 11pm and 7am.

So if I plug in at 1pm on a Sunday, it should start charging right away, right?

What actually happens on the eGolf is that the yellow light on the bottom button is illuminated and the green light flickers (not pulsing).
The EVSE shows the top 2 lights on: Power and charging (but the car is NOT charging).
After a minute, and then both the the lights on the eGolf turn off completely.
Then I hear a click from the EVSE, and then the 2nd light (Charging) turns off.
The top light stays on.

I re-opened my case with VW customer service and provided them with all my information including the carnet account number and PIN so they can see it for themselves.

Purchased from Sunnyvale VW December 2014.

 

[miimura]

I have been told that the Off-Peak settings don't do anything. The timer purely goes by departure time. Structure your tests around the departure time and let us know what happens. I find it strange that the Clipper Creek HCS would be any different than other EVSE in this regard.

 

[sweetwagon]

Unless it's some sort of weird coincidence, I've observed off peak timer working. I have mine set from 11pm to 7am. Here's my usage over a course of a week. Pretty close to starting at 11pm each time. On Friday night I plugged in manually using immediate charge. I have another issue popping up though, I notice my departure times tend to wander randomly(e.g 6:55 one day, 7:56 another, sometime a few minutes sometimes almost an hour). I need to keep putting it back to 7am. WTF?

 

[Frank3]

I'm having "end-time creep" as well. I have a suspicion that it's a software bug that based on the actual stop-time for charging. Car-net begins charging based on estimated time to complete charge laid against the end-time you set in car-net. Because it's always an estimate, it will sometimes take a few minutes longer or shorter than the estimate. As a result, there is a new end-time created based upon your last actual end-time.

 

[eGopher]

If the Charging Location Off-peak power Start and End times don't work, then how am I supposed to set this up so charging happens when the rates are cheap with a Level 2 charger?

On weekdays, the off-peak rates are from 11pm to 7am.
I would like to plug-in my car whenever I get home but I don't want the charging to start until 11pm.
but if I plug in the car after 11pm then it should start charging immediately.

The longest it should take to charge an eGolf with a Level 2 ClipperCreek HCS-40 at 32 Amps would be 3.5 hours
If I set the departure time at lets say 2:30am, then working backwards, the charger should start at 11pm, right?

Bonus Question: Is there any reason I should or should not charge to 100%?
I cant get a straight answer from either my dealer or VW support.

 

[miimura]

I'm having "end-time creep" as well. I have a suspicion that it's a software bug that based on the actual stop-time for charging. Car-net begins charging based on estimated time to complete charge laid against the end-time you set in car-net. Because it's always an estimate, it will sometimes take a few minutes longer or shorter than the estimate. As a result, there is a new end-time created based upon your last actual end-time.

If true, that's a terrible software implementation. They should be correcting the calculation for the start time so that it is actually done slightly ahead of your departure time. The car knows the amperage indicated by the EVSE and when you first plug in, it tells the EVSE to close the relay, so then it can see the voltage too. From that, it should estimate a power delivery and battery charge rate. They SHOULD be correcting the charge rate for a given Volt and Amp input and therefore correcting the start time.

Anyway, I saw the departure time bouncing around too, but mine has been stable for the last couple weeks.

 

[miimura]

If the Charging Location Off-peak power Start and End times don't work, then how am I supposed to set this up so charging happens when the rates are cheap with a Level 2 charger?

On weekdays, the off-peak rates are from 11pm to 7am.
I would like to plug-in my car whenever I get home but I don't want the charging to start until 11pm.
but if I plug in the car after 11pm then it should start charging immediately.

The longest it should take to charge an eGolf with a Level 2 ClipperCreek HCS-40 at 32 Amps would be 3.5 hours
If I set the departure time at lets say 2:30am, then working backwards, the charger should start at 11pm, right?

Bonus Question: Is there any reason I should or should not charge to 100%?
I cant get a straight answer from either my dealer or VW support.

I set my departure time for 6am. With a 240V EVSE, it will be sure to start and finish during the Off-Peak rate window. Do you have a special reason you want to start promptly at 11pm? I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Charging to 100% depends on how the car was designed. If VW left a buffer at the top of the SOC (State of Charge) such that what the car calls 100% cannot damage the battery, then there's no reason not to do it. However, they have a warning in the manuals that you should not repeatedly start charging from 98% or above. So, maybe there's something to worry about. Who knows? I doubt you could ever get an accurate answer to that question from anyone outside the engineering team that actually worked on the car.

That begs the question - have anyone actually gotten that CarNet setting to actually work? I've not tried it. We're leasing the car and plan to return it, so I don't particularly care about small amounts of degradation.

 

[Unbeliever]

I've been running experiments with CC. One of the experiments was to reduce the charging rate for the profile I was using. Since it worked on the Bosch, we tried to drop it to 30A first. That didn't work.

I then tried setting the charge rate to 16 amps. That experiment was VERY interesting.

On Saturday afternoon, I enabled a profile with a 7am departure time. I didn't double check before I went to bed Saturday night, and I didn't get around to checking the status the next day until 11 am or so. It didn't charge. However, as soon as I hit 'refresh' to query the car for a new status, it immediately started charging. It started charging at 16 amps, as indicated by the "time remaining" display, and cross-checked by the load display on my service meter.

The other interesting thing was that CarNet changed the departure time to "now plus 3 hours" (1:57pm), even though I had set it to 7am the previous day, and the "time remaining" was 4-ish hours. CarNet only allows the user to set times in 5 minute increments, not 1 minute increments. I also believe the CarNet web and phone app only displays the settings that are directly queried from the car.

I tried to duplicate the experiment for Monday morning, resetting the departure time to 7am and leaving it at 16A. However, I made the "mistake" of querying a new status at about 10:30 PM, which was within the night-time period I set from 9pm to 9am. The car immediately started to charge at 16A when it got the status query. I unplugged the car and re-plugged and it started to charge on the re-plug even with the "delayed charge" indicator lit. I hit "stop charging" on CarNet and the car stopped charging and the "delayed charge" blink began. I didn't unplug, and then 60 seconds later, the car began charging again on its own accord.

Although "it takes two to tango" and the car doesn't like the 32A duty cycle on the pilot signal PWM on the HCS-40, behavior like this still makes me think the real problem is still in the car, and not the HCS-40. In all these experiments, the HCS has been the unchanged variable. It's always reporting "I can do 32A".

This didn't happen when I had it set at 30A or 32A and checked before I went to sleep.

 

[snAKes]

Bonus Question: Is there any reason I should or should not charge to 100%?
I cant get a straight answer from either my dealer or VW support.

Lithium ion batteries are not very stable at 100% and leaving them fully charged for long periods of time affects their longevity. Topping off is also not recommended for the same reason, and this is noted in the manual that you should not repeatedly start charging at above 98%. This is the primary reason why I am using delayed charging, so most of the time my battery remains in the optimal 30-80% range. I use delayed charging to bring it up to 100% an hour before I depart (in the summer in order to let the battery cool).

 

[eGopher]

The charging location "off-peak power" function doesn't work at all?
If that's the case, then what you are saying is that charging would start at
Departure time - (Calculated estimated time to charge to Maximum battery charge level) ?

That is a much more complicated task to write that code as compared to using the off-peak power interval.
Why would the programmer pick a more difficult and error-prone algorithm?

I uploaded a video to YouTube and sent the URL to VW and ClipperCreek support.

Here's the URL: https://youtu.be/XkiwWCpU2ow
Please add your comments if you are experiencing similar or different issues.

For charging percentage, I normally try to charge to 90% unless I am planning on going somewhere where I know I'll need too eek out every mile. The only reason I would like the charging to start at the beginning of the off-peak period is so that I could troubleshoot the system before going to sleep. It is nuts to stay awake all night just to get this crazy thing working.

 

[eGopher]

More information about the eGolf / ClpperCreek L2 charger

I uploaded another video, this time focusing on the indicator lights of the HCS-40.

At time code 00:15, Insert J1772 to charging port, Click sound from HCS-40
- HCS-40, Yellow Power=ON, Green Charging=ON
- eGolf, Delayed Charge Yellow = ON, Status Light=Flashing Green

At time code 01:15, HCS-40 click sound from HCS-40
- HCS-40, Yellow Power=ON, Charging Light=OFF
- eGold, Delayed Charge Off, Status Light Off.

Apparently after 1 minute (exactly) the HCS-40 switched off and the eGolf went to sleep.

See the video Here:
https://youtu.be/NL9Odg-5BKg

 

[miimura]

The charging location "off-peak power" function doesn't work at all?
If that's the case, then what you are saying is that charging would start at
Departure time - (Calculated estimated time to charge to Maximum battery charge level) ?

That is a much more complicated task to write that code as compared to using the off-peak power interval.
Why would the programmer pick a more difficult and error-prone algorithm?

I believe the car makers are trying to do what is best for the grid. Southern California Edison released a report about their experience with PEV customers in 2013.

Here is the relevant section:

2. Using the “End Charge” Time Programing Feature Is Good for Our PEV Customers and Their Neighbors
Many PEVs have settings that can determine a “start charge” time or “end charge” time. It’s better for grid reliability and neighborhood circuits when drivers program their charging to be complete by a specific time.
Setting an end time creates a more random start time pattern because batteries have different “states of discharge” and charge at different levels, thus requiring various amounts of electricity. When customers set an “end charge” time for charging to be complete, they randomize the start time of their charging, which prevents a large number of vehicles from coming online at the same time – avoiding power-load spikes that potentially could affect the local distribution system.
For example, it takes three to seven hours to charge a PHEV at Level 1, depending on the vehicle energy storage capacity and battery state of charge. At a Level 2 charge, that same car could be charged in one to three hours. So staggered start times at night minimize grid impacts and support system reliability as cars charge at different times. It helps offset local peaks that can occur when many customers return home at a similar time at the end of a work day and immediately plug in.