Battery degradation

[SunnySoCal]

(Old thread, I know, but thought it'd be best to keep it going rather than start anew.)

So I finally broke down and sprung for an OBDeleven - decent little device, though I wish we had more insight into the actual meaning of all the fields we're able to view.

Using all the info I'd gathered from this site, Reddit, and SpeakEV, I had finally come to the conclusion that I was below the 70% mark on battery capacity. After fully charging, I was seeing 14400 Wh in the "Energy Content of HV battery, RWB-internal deduction" field in OBDeleven. I figured this is roughly 60-64% of the nominal capacity.

At ~65000 miles, I decided to finally have the brake fluid changed, so while I was there I informed the service dept that I believed the battery capacity was low enough to make a warranty claim.

I am documenting the process more thoroughly in this thread on Reddit if you'd like to read more.

Bottom line is, although no one was able to say to me "Yes, your battery is less than 70%", the paperwork I was given when I picked the car up states that the battery is at 67% and that they are awaiting a decision from VW Regional.

Stay tuned for more!

Thanks for posting! Looking forward to hearing how VW resolves this.

Hope they let you know soon and that it is good news.

 

[Spektre]

Just got a call from my case manager at VW Customer Care: The replacement (new? refurb?) battery has been ordered from Germany and could take up to 60 days to get here.

I don't have any updates on the logistics of the replacement itself, but at least I know they are going to replace the battery!

 

[MaybeGolfer]

As someone considering the id4, I find it very reassuring that VW is honoring the warranty like this.

 

[f1geek]

The battery pack is on a slow boat, but at least it's coming. Good news! It is a bit puzzling to me that VW does not keep any battery packs in stock in the USA, but I suppose there could be many reasons for them not doing this (shipping costs, manufacturing costs, low rate of failure?). I think you should get an answer from VW if you ask them about the status of the replacement cells, as I believe you are entitled to know if you are getting brand new cells or cells that at least exceed the 70% net capacity threshold. Also, do you know the warranty on the replacement pack?

 

[Spektre]

The battery pack is on a slow boat, but at least it's coming. Good news! It is a bit puzzling to me that VW does not keep any battery packs in stock in the USA, but I suppose there could be many reasons for them not doing this (shipping costs, manufacturing costs, low rate of failure?). I think you should get an answer from VW if you ask them about the status of the replacement cells, as I believe you are entitled to know if you are getting brand new cells or cells that at least exceed the 70% net capacity threshold. Also, do you know the warranty on the replacement pack?

I spoke further with the Service Rep at the dealership. Apparently they had a pack in California that sat unused for 18 months, but for some reason decided not to use it (didn't know/tell me why).

I suppose technically by the terms of the warranty they only have to give me something that's above the 70% threshold, but I personally can't imagine this isn't a new pack. Best case, it's a brand new 2017+ pack and I get the extra miles, worst case it's a remanufactured 2015 battery and I'm just barely over 70%.

I will post all the details when I find them out - mid-April-ish!

 

[f1geek]

Thanks for the update. The 18 month old pack indicates to me VW is not in the habit of replacing packs (good to know). Maybe it had already lost some of its capacity due to being poorly protected from high temps in the summer, but that is, of course, only a guess. Thanks for keeping us updated. Yes, I hope you get a 2017+ pack.

 

[JoulesThief]

About 30,500 miles on my 2015 SEL.

Still shows 109 miles on the Guess -O Meter when fully charged.

Showed 129 miles on the Guess O Meter when brand new in October, 2015.

I guess I didn't abuse it enough.

I suspect that you'll be getting a remanufactured battery from the motherland, as every time I've ever had to get something covered under warranty, from something as simple as a defective rear window on my Passat TDI, to the shifter linkage in park switch on the Touareg from the Motherland, which took 6 weeks for VW to finally ship the part and install it at the local dealership, the dealerships fight it.

The dealerships fought it, tooth and nail, despite being a brand loyal customer of VW products pretty much my whole life. I am sure it's because VW Germany pays the techs and dealerships cr*p for warranty work repairs. The dealerships profit handsomely from when the customer has to pay for the repair, instead, so there is always the incentive for the dealership to try and avoid warranty work, and to stick it to the customer.

 

[pezzy669]

I'm in to follow this thread. OP any update on new battery situation?

Using a calculation on another thread I am coming up with ~69% remaining on my '16 E-Golf SE. Mind you first lessee pushed this thing to the absolute limits as a commuter in CT/NY area - piled 59.5k miles on it in 3 years. I am up to 64k miles about 1 year 2 months in.

My next "inspection" is not until October and my servicing dealer may actually have some EV service knowledge at that point with the ID.4 going strong. I'll see if they actually can give me a battery health report.

 

[f1geek]

Interesting. It is much cooler in CT than in Arizona. Maybe the previous did a lot of DCFC charging? Assuming 50 weeks a year, 5 days a week driving, I get an average commute of 80 miles a day - it could be done purely with AC charging, but would certainly require charging to 100% every work day. Not your fault, but it will be interesting to see if VW makes any comments about battery pack use pattern when you have the health check - and I think charging to 100% every day for an 80 mile commute is normal behavior.

 

[pezzy669]

Interesting. It is much cooler in CT than in Arizona. Maybe the previous did a lot of DCFC charging? Assuming 50 weeks a year, 5 days a week driving, I get an average commute of 80 miles a day - it could be done purely with AC charging, but would certainly require charging to 100% every work day. Not your fault, but it will be interesting to see if VW makes any comments about battery pack use pattern when you have the health check - and I think charging to 100% every day for an 80 mile commute is normal behavior.

I would hope they don't :lol: - they sold it to me as CPO so imagine they were satisfied (if they even checked) with how prior owner charged. I have only DC fast charged I think 3 times and it was many months between DCFC sessions. All the other charges have been 240V L2 charging with a few 110V L1 charging when parked at the airport for trips. I charge to 80% from spring through fall then 100% during winter (range is too horrific when it starts dipping below 40 degrees).

When I said they pushed to the limits I meant more for piling that amount of miles on a low range EV, 20k annually is even well above average for a ICE car let alone a 84 mile EV.

 

[f1geek]

Good to know it is a CPO - battery health is then responsibility of VW (which it is anyway, with warranty). You are taking good care of the pack. Definitely agree about mileage, but if you need to drive that much, then driving an EV is the smart way to go as energy costs are so much lower per mile than buying gasoline, paying for oil changes, etc. Thanks for keeping us updated about dealer pack health check.

 

[Spektre]

Wrapping it up:

Picked up my car yesterday with a brand new battery - everything is great again!

Battery installed is part number 5QE-915-590-AT, (https://parts.vw.com/p/Volkswagen__/BATTERY/71605414/5QE915590AT.html) the original part number for the 2015 battery - so no bigger battery, but it is a $33k USD part (yikes! way more than I paid for my car, LOL)

Now I just need to keep the ol' VLTSWGN going until I can get my 2024 Buzz!

 

[f1geek]

Strangely, the larger capacity pack for my car "only" lists for $22k. VW could have saved themselves some money if they gave your car more range.

 

[BassCadet]

We purchased a 2016 eGolf SEL in July 2021, before used car prices started going crazy. It had about 50k miles. The HV battery does not seem to have good range, especially when driven on the freeway or at higher speeds. This happened to our 2016 Kia Soul EV and my electric motorcycle (2014 Zero S) and both those were replaced under warranty, so I think I have some idea of battery capacity and life.

I took the car in to have the battery evaluated and a front squeak checked. They charged me $200 to diagnose the HV battery and tell me it is within normal operating range (SOH 89%) and the front squeak was not a problem. There is a lot of brake pad remaining (similar to what others here have been told, although the tech did hear it initially but said it went away).

I read that VW uses 70% of nominal capacity, which is 90% of total battery capacity, so it's more like 63% of battery capacity for warranty replacement. OBDEleven is telling me 17.2 kWh, or 79% of nominal capacity (21.8 kWh). It is at 70% of total battery capacity (17.2/24.2), so other manufacturers would probably replace it under warranty. I now have to figure if I need to further derate the 79% to match VW's 89% number, and whether to baby the battery or try to run it down.

Seems like Spektre may be one of only a few who had his HV battery replaced.

 

[f1geek]

I do not know about other manufacturers, but I suspect the 70% warranty from another manufacturer also refers to usable capacity over time as compared to usable capacity when new.

I think VW was conservative in their degradation estimates, so most people probably won't get a warranty replacement. If you live someplace hot, the degradation may happen regardless of what you do. Your pack needs to lose another ~2.2 kWh usable capacity to hit the warranty limit.