Yes it's a four-seater but...

[Bmwtech]

The affect of having four adults in the car is dramatic. I loaded the family into my fully charged machine and headed to dad's house for Thanksgiving dinner last night.
Wife: Should we bring the charging cable?
Me: Nope! We have 94 miles on the gage and dad's only 18 miles away.
18 miles later the gage read 61 miles. An 18 mile trip 'cost' us 33 miles!
Mostly freeway is not good for regen, but same altitude and no hills.
For a 36 mile round trip I might use a vast majority of the juice!
Weight, just another thing to factor in.

 

[JoulesThief]

The affect of having four adults in the car is dramatic. I loaded the family into my fully charged machine and headed to dad's house for Thanksgiving dinner last night.
Wife: Should we bring the charging cable?
Me: Nope! We have 94 miles on the gage and dad's only 18 miles away.
18 miles later the gage read 61 miles. An 18 mile trip 'cost' us 33 miles!
Mostly freeway is not good for regen, but same altitude and no hills.
For a 36 mile round trip I might use a vast majority of the juice!
Weight, just another thing to factor in.

LOL... were you driving "the speed limit" as defined on the sign, or as defined by the flow of traffic. Of course, no one knows where you were driving or what the speed limit was there, so it's a valueless term for most of us. It might be a term useful for avoiding speeding tickets, but the officer will ask you, "How fast was that?" He's looking for a number, in miles per hour, like most of us.

The e-Golf is a true city and BLVD cruising driving machine. It's not an interstate or freeway burner where life starts at 60mph and 75 or 80 is more the norm, "because everyone else is speeding."

Picture your e-Golf being like a road bike or mountain bike... really meant for 1 person, and it has about the same level and capacity as that one persons power making capacity. On the e-Golf, every thing is scaled down to about 1/10th the capacity or less, still pushing around 3400 pounds of car and battery before you start hauling people in it too. Energy density of a 6.7 lb LiIon battery is on a scale of mouse nuts compared to 6.7 pounds, or a gallon of diesel fuel. I don't know what the factor is, but on the order of 300-600x more energy in that gallon of diesel fuel. Batteries are a lot of dead weight to accelerate and decelerate, with huge limitations.


As a new owner of an e-Golf, I've found that like all new appliances, the owner has to go through a severe "adaptation" period to their new toy, accepting it's foibles, uncomfortable features, and severe limitations.

Especially with me coming from 3 different TDI's where turbo boost, torque and get up and go once rolling exists in ample spades while on the freeway or interstate, without a huge penalty in loss of range if I use it. The e-Golf needs to be cajoled, coaxed and babied if you want decent range per charge. And the best way to increase range is ignore the herd mentality and slow the f*ck down to model A or model T levels on roads. This is not only a horseless carriage, it's and ICEless carriage. Severe limitations start right there when you threw the ICE and fuel tank away and replaced it with a battery and electric motor.

For me, every e-Golf trip, being retired, and not commuting to work, is a major planned trip to the next tethering spot, where I get so figure out how to burn 2 or 3 hours of time recharging if I'd like to recharge for free. Level 3 charging, when you pay for it, is double the cost per mile than in my VW Passat TDI. $10 of electricity at NRG eVo gets me 80 miles on the freeway at 65 mph, and a 30 minute wait. $4.80 of diesel, 2 gallons, gets me 100 miles down the interstate at 65 mph, and I don't have to wait 1/2 to two to three hours on a trip of any distance to fill up again.

As an example, last Sunday I took a leisurely drive from L.A. to Los Gatos, to Santa Cruz, then back home, because I felt like taking a long drive. 780 miles... and I didn't fill up until the end of the trip. 15.77 gallons of diesel at $2.39 a gallon, about 3 gallons and 150 miles in reserve. My reserve range is about DOUBLE the range of the e-Golf during freeway or interstate travel, at 65 mph, for both

Extended range is coming for e-vehicles, next generation. We are just early adopters, paying for bleeding edge technology. Some folks like to make a statement about the fact that they are driving bleeding edge technology. Others just want it to work, to function, to not break down, and aren't worried about making a statement of how "green" they are. That crowd buys the Toyota Rav 4 EV or the e-Golf, not something that stands out every time you see one, like a Prius, a Volt or a Leaf. The only way my neighbors know I am driving an electric is if I park the car and plug in in the driveway.

 

[miimura]

It was pretty cold on Thanksgiving day in San Jose, so you probably used more heat than you usually do. Do you have an SEL, or a LE/SE? If you don't have an SEL, you don't have a heat pump, so the heater sucks a lot of battery too.

The other consideration is that it takes more torque so slow down the greater mass of the additional passengers. So, if you decel at the same rate, it may be using more of the friction brakes than it would with a solo driver.

Sounds like you hit a variety of sub-optimal conditions.

 

[bizzle]

His signature says he has a 2015 SEL

 

[Bmwtech]

It was pretty cold on Thanksgiving day in San Jose, so you probably used more heat than you usually do. Do you have an SEL, or a LE/SE? If you don't have an SEL, you don't have a heat pump, so the heater sucks a lot of battery too.

I have the SEL. And truth be told, I did not drive it conservatively as I was confident in the low miles to Los Altos. Lesson learned.

 

[ulrichw]

It was pretty cold on Thanksgiving day in San Jose, so you probably used more heat than you usually do. Do you have an SEL, or a LE/SE? If you don't have an SEL, you don't have a heat pump, so the heater sucks a lot of battery too.

I have the SEL. And truth be told, I did not drive it conservatively as I was confident in the low miles to Los Altos. Lesson learned.

What did your "state of charge" indicator say after the drive? The display in miles could be skewed by quite a bit based on what you did right before you arrived. The difference in charge level before/after the trip would be a more consistent measure of energy usage.

 

[Bmwtech]

Good point. I didn't look. I'm still quite the newbie and learning the little nuances.

 

[RonDawg]

The e-Golf is a true city and BLVD cruising driving machine. It's not an interstate or freeway burner where life starts at 60mph and 75 or 80 is more the norm, "because everyone else is speeding."

I disagree. While it's not a road trip kind of car, there are many EVers who commute by freeway, and at 55+ MPH too especially if they have an HOV lane along their route.

The eGolf is a much better freeway commuter than the Leaf in that I don't have to "baby" it (within reason) in order to get the EPA estimated range. The Leaf has supposedly similar range, with the same size battery, but in order to get that I have to pretty much stay at 55 or under. For example, I can easily make it the 35 or so miles to the edge of Orange County, and back, in my eGolf. Of course I'm driving 65-70, and not 80. But the same trip in my Leaf, even when brand new, meant I would have to either stop off somewhere for a 1-2 hour L2 charge, or else use city streets for part of the distance.

 

[mfennell]

The e-golf is more aerodynamic than the Leaf so it makes sense. The drag coefficient (0.27 vs 0.28 claimed) is pretty close but the e-golf is 4" shorter while only 1" wider than the Leaf. The net is that the e-golf is about 10% slipperier.

 

[JoulesThief]

The e-Golf is a true city and BLVD cruising driving machine. It's not an interstate or freeway burner where life starts at 60mph and 75 or 80 is more the norm, "because everyone else is speeding."

I disagree. While it's not a road trip kind of car, there are many EVers who commute by freeway, and at 55+ MPH too especially if they have an HOV lane along their route.

The eGolf is a much better freeway commuter than the Leaf in that I don't have to "baby" it (within reason) in order to get the EPA estimated range. The Leaf has supposedly similar range, with the same size battery, but in order to get that I have to pretty much stay at 55 or under. For example, I can easily make it the 35 or so miles to the edge of Orange County, and back, in my eGolf. Of course I'm driving 65-70, and not 80. But the same trip in my Leaf, even when brand new, meant I would have to either stop off somewhere for a 1-2 hour L2 charge, or else use city streets for part of the distance.

Ron, Volkswagen never has, and never will build for the American market. They build for the continental Europe and British market located close to the Motherland, Germany. America always has been, and always will be an afterthought, as far as VW is concerned. That they test the cars in and around Death Valley on 2 lane roads, is what they are interested in, not HOV's or 75 mph runs being so close to it's max rated 87 mph. High discharge rates on Li Ion batteries generate heat also. A run of 75 mph straight, for an hour will drain that battery pronto, generating quite a bit of heat too, in the discharge process. Try some high power usage apps in your smart phone, like google maps with GPS on, and you can feel the batteries getting hot too.

While YOU may choose to use the car that way, the Germans really don't care, until your usage methods start giving them warranty repair expenses and issues, then they care. And VW is legendary for weaseling out of warranty coverage repairs. Hard to trust them, with good reason.

If you really want to know, first hand, try this on a weekend. Top charge your battery, and get on a freeway out of town at a low traffic hour, and set the cruise control on 75 mph and leave it there the whole time, until you get into the red zone for reserve. Get off the freeway when you get into reserve, and take a picture of your stats on the infotainment center "Since recharge", as well as a picture of the gauge of your battery fuel tank needle, located at the bottom of your speedometer. I'd be really interested to see if you can even make it 70 miles on a charge, at that speed... I am guessing closer to 3 miles per kwh and 60 miles range, pushing all that air out of the way at that speed. That's fine, when you have a big tank of diesel fuel or gas on board, it's not fine when you have a 22 kwh battery being drained at a greater than c/1 discharge rate, with a marginal thermal management system for the battery pack.

High charge rates and high discharge rates on very expensive Li Ion battery packs is not good for the longevity of the battery packs. Vw built these battery packs as "marathon" packs, not sprinter, high charge speed and high discharge speed battery packs. Those were the engineers goals. Not HOV lanes at 75 mph in Orange County, CA. People I know in Los Angeles hate driving through Orange County to get to San Diego, it's the pits.

For VW, if it fits their model, they bring it to the USA, otherwise, unless forced to, and the e-Golf, by all accounts is a compliance model for carbon credits by CARB and other CARB adopting states. They have to sell a minimum amount of the models to get the carbon credits and keep CARB happy, so they can sell all their other models here in California.

 

[miimura]

Ron, Volkswagen never has, and never will build for the American market.

I think you may end up eating your words on that one when the CrossBlue comes out, whatever they end up calling it. Designed for American tastes and made in America.

 

[stevestrange]

I generally ignore the range indicator (LEAFers call this the GOM, or Guess-O-Meter), and just look at the charge gauge. The smallest increments are 1/16th of a full charge. I figure if I've gotten 5 miles out of each increment, I'm doing well, as that gets me to an 80-mile full range. Although I feel this is really more like 70 miles, because that last 1/8th of the charge (marked in red) is not a pleasant place to be, especially on the freeway. Your speed soon becomes limited to 55 MPH, which is downright dangerous on most CA freeways. It's great to have that last 1/8th as reserve, but it is best avoided when possible.

 

[JoulesThief]

Ron, Volkswagen never has, and never will build for the American market.

I think you may end up eating your words on that one when the CrossBlue comes out, whatever they end up calling it. Designed for American tastes and made in America.
,

After VW's dieselgate, we'll just have to wait and see what ends up being built in Chattanooga, TN besides the Passat, which is basically a stripped down Audi A6, designed by the same engineer from Audi when he got promoted to Volkswagen.

VW is notorious for talking about models to be brought to the USA that end up as vaporware. Still waiting for a Jetta Sportswagen /Golf Sportswagen AWD manual TDI, which VW has been promising for years now, to go head to head against a Subaru.

Since I own 2 Touaregs, and know how much VW has to discount them to get them to move off of dealership lots, with the cost of operating any VW, I see the CrossBlue as being a car going nowhere, since VW went and screwed the pooch with dieselgate... only diehard VW freaks will consider one, once people see the repair bills and expense of maintaining a Cross-Blue, they'll dump them like a hot potato.

 

[RonDawg]

Ron, Volkswagen never has, and never will build for the American market.

I think you may end up eating your words on that one when the CrossBlue comes out, whatever they end up calling it. Designed for American tastes and made in America.

It's not the first VW "designed for American tastes and made in America." This car has graced our roads for some time:

It's the USDM Passat, which looks similar to the EU version, but aside from some parts is NOT the same car. Built in Chattanooga, TN. It's VW's attempt to take on the Camcordima, especially on price.

Arguably, the first VW's "designed for America, built in America" are the 1981-1983 VW Rabbits with the different front end, taillights, and especially interior than the Wolfsburg-built cars of the same year. Built in the now defunct Westmoreland, PA plant. The German Mark was becoming more expensive by this time and VW did this to make the car more cost competitive with the Japanese (sound familiar?). You can especially see the downward trend in quality when comparing the interiors with the German-built Jettas with which it shared floor space, something VW sadly decided to recreate 2 decades later with the USDM Jetta (built in Mexico) and later the USDM Passat. I know this personally as I had a '77 Wolfsburg built Rabbit which was passed down to me from my mother when she got a new PA built '81. MAJOR difference in interior quality between the two.

 

[RonDawg]

Ron, Volkswagen never has, and never will build for the American market. They build for the continental Europe and British market located close to the Motherland, Germany. America always has been, and always will be an afterthought, as far as VW is concerned. That they test the cars in and around Death Valley on 2 lane roads, is what they are interested in, not HOV's or 75 mph runs being so close to it's max rated 87 mph. High discharge rates on Li Ion batteries generate heat also. A run of 75 mph straight, for an hour will drain that battery pronto, generating quite a bit of heat too, in the discharge process. Try some high power usage apps in your smart phone, like google maps with GPS on, and you can feel the batteries getting hot too.

For a car that you claim is only built for Germans (and Brits) in mind, and not necessarily us "Muricans" I find it hard to believe that VW would neglect a car's ability to travel continuously at 75+ MPH until its fuel supply runs out (albeit rather quickly in the case of the eGolf). That's very un-German.

Yes high speeds will generate a lot of heat in the motor. That's why VW (and Nissan, and most other EV manufacturers other than maybe Tesla) put speed limiters on. One thing about a car with only a 24 kWH battery is that if you do go 75 MPH, you won't be able to do so for long. Once batteries become economical enough to allow multi-hour drives at that sort of speed, then you might have a point.

While YOU may choose to use the car that way, the Germans really don't care, until your usage methods start giving them warranty repair expenses and issues, then they care. And VW is legendary for weaseling out of warranty coverage repairs. Hard to trust them, with good reason.

You trust them enough to become a repeat customer.

If you really want to know, first hand, try this on a weekend. Top charge your battery, and get on a freeway out of town at a low traffic hour, and set the cruise control on 75 mph and leave it there the whole time, until you get into the red zone for reserve. Get off the freeway when you get into reserve, and take a picture of your stats on the infotainment center "Since recharge", as well as a picture of the gauge of your battery fuel tank needle, located at the bottom of your speedometer. I'd be really interested to see if you can even make it 70 miles on a charge, at that speed... I am guessing closer to 3 miles per kwh and 60 miles range, pushing all that air out of the way at that speed. That's fine, when you have a big tank of diesel fuel or gas on board, it's not fine when you have a 22 kwh battery being drained at a greater than c/1 discharge rate, with a marginal thermal management system for the battery pack.

High charge rates and high discharge rates on very expensive Li Ion battery packs is not good for the longevity of the battery packs. Vw built these battery packs as "marathon" packs, not sprinter, high charge speed and high discharge speed battery packs. Those were the engineers goals. Not HOV lanes at 75 mph in Orange County, CA.

The problem is you do NOT have to drive at 75 MPH! I stay in the far right lane, and I have no problems (well, no more than usual) keeping the cruise control at 65 MPH. Yes people tailgate, but in LA you could be doing 90 and still find someone tailgating you. You'll never win. Best you can do is slow down slightly (and gradually) and hopefully they'll go around you, otherwise sometimes changing lanes yourself (when safe to do so), letting them go past, and then getting back behind them is the only way to get them to knock it off. I find that drivers who respond more to the latter are the types who simply "zone out" behind the wheel and don't realize they're even tailgating, as opposed to someone who simply thinks you're going too slow.

 

[RonDawg]

After VW's dieselgate, we'll just have to wait and see what ends up being built in Chattanooga, TN besides the Passat, which is basically a stripped down Audi A6, designed by the same engineer from Audi when he got promoted to Volkswagen.

I've checked around and articles in car magazines from the time leading up to the MY 2012 introduction of the "NMS" (New Midsize Sedan) Passat indicate it's a chassis designed for North America and China (again with cost in mind), and is not a rehashed A6. The Wikipedia article on it does say it was partially based on the PQ46 EuroPassat platform.

Also, the A6 has always been a longitudinal-engine design with FWD, like all postwar Audis up to the A3/TT introduction, whereas the NMS Passat is transverse engine/FWD like the original Golf. Passats before the 2005/B6 model do have some commonality with midsize Audis of similar era.

 

[JoulesThief]

After VW's dieselgate, we'll just have to wait and see what ends up being built in Chattanooga, TN besides the Passat, which is basically a stripped down Audi A6, designed by the same engineer from Audi when he got promoted to Volkswagen.

I've checked around and articles in car magazines from the time leading up to the MY 2012 introduction of the "NMS" (New Midsize Sedan) Passat indicate it's a chassis designed for North America and China (again with cost in mind), and is not a rehashed A6. The Wikipedia article on it does say it was partially based on the PQ46 EuroPassat platform.

Also, the A6 has always been a longitudinal-engine design with FWD, like all postwar Audis up to the A3/TT introduction, whereas the NMS Passat is transverse engine/FWD like the original Golf. Passats before the 2005/B6 model do have some commonality with midsize Audis of similar era.

I've owned 2 NMS passats, a 6 man 2012 and a DSGw/ sunroof 2014. I shopped long and hard for a A6 TDI quattro Premium plus. New at $64,000, the value wasn't there, the interior is darn near the same as a passat TDI SEL. Doors, locks, seat frames, etc, all the same. A useless dead ass slow GPS system /Nav system too. Even a used 2014 A6 Quattro with 15 to 20k miles on it at 42k last May was not worth it to me... the value, in my eyes, for what you get is not there, not even close, when I consider I bought a brand new zero mile 2013Touareg AWD v6 TDI for less than a 2 year old used A6 Quattro pre owned. I guess the folks that buy the Audis' have way more money to burn than I do... a Tesla S70 seems a better buy to me than the Audi A6 TDI quattro, value wise.

 

[johnqh]

It did not use 33 miles of battery! It recalculated and decided you can drive for 61 miles based on the 18 miles drive.

So, before, it estimated 94. Now it estimated 61+18=79.

It really meant your driving mpg dropped about (94 -79)/94 = 16%, which can be simply the result of freeway driving and/or weather.