Upgraded Steering Wheel with Paddle Shifter Regen Mode?

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Joined
Dec 3, 2021
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Has anyone been able to upgrade to a GTI/R steering wheel with paddle shifter and able to gain regen function? (Search didn't return any result.) I think new Niro EV has a working setup.

Cheers.
 
Has anyone been able to upgrade to a GTI/R steering wheel with paddle shifter and able to gain regen function? (Search didn't return any result.) I think new Niro EV has a working setup.

Cheers.
Hi, have you managed to find out any info? i am also looking for this option but the internet is silent.
 
I guess I'm ignorant about this, because I can't understand this request, in two ways. First, why would you want paddle shifters on the e-Golf? Second, why would you lose regen braking with a different steering wheel?Are you saying you want the paddles to control the braking mode, D0-D3, and B?
 
I guess I'm ignorant about this, because I can't understand this request, in two ways. First, why would you want paddle shifters on the e-Golf? Second, why would you lose regen braking with a different steering wheel?Are you saying you want the paddles to control the braking mode, D0-D3, and B?
That is my guess.
 
I guess I'm ignorant about this, because I can't understand this request, in two ways. First, why would you want paddle shifters on the e-Golf? Second, why would you lose regen braking with a different steering wheel?Are you saying you want the paddles to control the braking mode, D0-D3, and B?
Exactly, the paddle would determine the level of recuperation just like the shifter does. In my previous Golf 7 DSG, the functionality of both things was the same except it was used for shifting (the left and right shifters shifted gears the same as the paddle under the steering wheel). So I would expect that if you could put paddles under the steering wheel here, it would be able to control the power of the recuperation. I have ti this way in a hyundai Kona and it's incredibly comfortable.
 
So I read that the shifter communicates with the igh voltage battery charge module via CAN bus. So the only solution would be to somehow get the shift paddles to communicate via this protocol and send commands just like the shifter. Alternatively, the solution would be to run cables from the shifter (from the microswitches) to the paddles under the steering wheel and make a physical parallel connection which seems a bit complicated. I'll try to possibly disassemble both mechanisms and see if it would be technically possible.

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Exactly, the paddle would determine the level of recuperation just like the shifter does. In my previous Golf 7 DSG, the functionality of both things was the same except it was used for shifting (the left and right shifters shifted gears the same as the paddle under the steering wheel). So I would expect that if you could put paddles under the steering wheel here, it would be able to control the power of the recuperation. I have ti this way in a hyundai Kona and it's incredibly comfortable.
How often do you change the recuperation setting during a trip? I drive in B mode almost all the time, changing it only when I get onto a high-speed highway. (I don't want braking to be activated in fast traffic just because I happen to shift my foot on the accelerator pedal.) Using the shift lever on the console to switch modes is extremely easy
 
How often do you change the recuperation setting during a trip? I drive in B mode almost all the time, changing it only when I get onto a high-speed highway. (I don't want braking to be activated in fast traffic just because I happen to shift my foot on the accelerator pedal.) Using the shift lever on the console to switch modes is extremely easy
I don't like one-pedal driving. I'm used to driving on D (car cruise). Not only does the vehicle use the least amount of electricity, but it also saves the most battery. If I'm going down a gentle hill, I switch to D1, if I'm going down a bigger hill I switch to D2 and so on. I switch quite often. Of course, it's easy use the shifter, but if one didn't have to take one's hands off the wheel, it would be a lot easier. That's exactly why paddles under the steering wheel were invented, so that one didn't have to use the shifter.
 
I'm used to driving on D (car cruise). Not only does the vehicle use the least amount of electricity, but it also saves the most battery.
Everything I have read says this is false. The differences can be small, however. It depends far more on the driver's rates of acceleration and deceleration. More abrupt starts will use more electricity and stops from higher speeds will rely more on the mechanical brakes.

Also, what is the difference between using "the least amount of electricity" and saving "the most battery".
 
Everything I have read says this is false. The differences can be small, however. It depends far more on the driver's rates of acceleration and deceleration. More abrupt starts will use more electricity and stops from higher speeds will rely more on the mechanical brakes.

Also, what is the difference between using "the least amount of electricity" and saving "the most battery".
Of course more acceleration is more detrimental to the battery, but driving in B is just another aspect that has a negative (albeit small but still) effect on battery life. However, I don't want to address here what is more harmful to the battery and what is not, but to find a solution to make the paddles work under the steering wheel.
 
Everything I have read says this is false. The differences can be small, however. It depends far more on the driver's rates of acceleration and deceleration. More abrupt starts will use more electricity and stops from higher speeds will rely more on the mechanical brakes.

Also, what is the difference between using "the least amount of electricity" and saving "the most battery".
I agree it would be nice for someone to perform a controlled test of B vs D mode in local and highway driving, and I also agree the efficiency differences come down to how hard you need to brake and how often you need to brake for a given trip. Regen braking and accelerating is less efficient than coasting because regen does not fully recover the kinetic energy of the car - I believe regen is ~40% efficient in converting kinetic energy to battery chemical energy.
 
Of course more acceleration is more detrimental to the battery, but driving in B is just another aspect that has a negative (albeit small but still) effect on battery life. However, I don't want to address here what is more harmful to the battery and what is not, but to find a solution to make the paddles work under the steering wheel.
No I don't think so, within limits. If you race the car, sure the battery takes a beating, but otherwise I do not believe driving mode has any impact on battery health.

Hey, if you can perform an instrumented, scientific test to show otherwise, we'd love to read your research paper. You would need to perform testing over years and tens of thousands of miles to be able to discern any statistically significant differences.
 
No I don't think so, within limits. If you race the car, sure the battery takes a beating, but otherwise I do not believe driving mode has any impact on battery health.

Hey, if you can perform an instrumented, scientific test to show otherwise, we'd love to read your research paper. You would need to perform testing over years and tens of thousands of miles to be able to discern any statistically significant differences.
I think it is a well-known fact that higher charging and discharging currents are detrimental to the battery see:

Thermal Stress: Higher discharge currents cause increased temperatures in the battery, leading to faster degradation of the electrolyte and electrode materials. Elevated temperatures also pose a greater risk of thermal runaway, which can cause permanent damage to the battery.

Electrochemical Reactions: At higher currents, electrochemical reactions occur more rapidly, potentially leading to uneven ion distribution within the battery and causing "concentration polarization." This can result in the growth of dendrites (sharp metallic structures) within the battery, which may lead to short circuits and subsequent battery damage.

Chemical Degradation: Higher currents can cause increased chemical activity, leading to the formation of by-products that can degrade the electrolyte and electrode materials.

But as I mention, I'd like to keep this thread on the topic of paddles under the steering wheel rather than battery degradation
 
I think it is a well-known fact that higher charging and discharging currents are detrimental to the battery see:

Thermal Stress: Higher discharge currents cause increased temperatures in the battery, leading to faster degradation of the electrolyte and electrode materials. Elevated temperatures also pose a greater risk of thermal runaway, which can cause permanent damage to the battery.

Electrochemical Reactions: At higher currents, electrochemical reactions occur more rapidly, potentially leading to uneven ion distribution within the battery and causing "concentration polarization." This can result in the growth of dendrites (sharp metallic structures) within the battery, which may lead to short circuits and subsequent battery damage.

Chemical Degradation: Higher currents can cause increased chemical activity, leading to the formation of by-products that can degrade the electrolyte and electrode materials.

But as I mention, I'd like to keep this thread on the topic of paddles under the steering wheel rather than battery degradation
Yes, which is why racing is worst case. Everything you have said is correct but in the real world for people who drive e-Golf in B mode or D mode, there will be no noticeable differences in battery health over time. VW engineers were very conservative with allowable current limits and were confident enough in the longevity / under stressing of pack that they left out a pack cooling system!

Unless you can prove a difference in real world usage of B mode vs D mode, then this is all theory.

Sure, we can go back to adding paddles. Best of luck!
 
I agree it would be nice for someone to perform a controlled test of B vs D mode in local and highway driving, and I also agree the efficiency differences come down to how hard you need to brake and how often you need to brake for a given trip. Regen braking and accelerating is less efficient than coasting because regen does not fully recover the kinetic energy of the car - I believe regen is ~40% efficient in converting kinetic energy to battery chemical energy.
It's closer to 30% efficient. I've reverse-engineered the numbers based on numerous range tests people have conducted online. And the highest I've calculated has been about 35%. This is why race cars use a flywheel to recapture energy from braking (KERS). Because it's storing (linear) kinetic energy as (rotational) kinetic energy, there's less loss and they can hit about 70%-75% efficiency. In contrast a electric regenerative braking system has numerous losses. Kinetic energy > magnetic > electric > chemical (stored in battery) > electric > magnetic > kinetic. Each '>' step in that chain loses a bit of energy. (Yeah, it's a common misconception that batteries store electricity. They don't; they use the electricity to drive a chemical reaction which stores the energy as chemical potential energy.)

If you're constantly driving in stop and go traffic, then B mode is fine. But if you're trying to use the least energy, you want to accelerate slightly past your target speed, then let off the accelerator to coast for a while. And when you're a bit below your target speed, give it a bit more acceleration to go past the target speed. Repeat. Basically the same as hyper-miling that hybrid owners figured out a decade ago.

Likewise, if you're approaching a light, let off the accelerator early so your speed drops as you get closer. If it turns yellow/red, you can quickly drop it into B mode, and the fact that you've slowed down means you lose the least energy to the inefficient regenerative braking. If it says green, you can just speed up again to get through the intersection.

Actual peak efficiency will depend on hotel vs dynamic load though. e.g. I'm running the AC full blast in the summer, so it'll actually save energy if I get to my destination quicker. Gradually coasting to a stop in D mode and foot off both pedals uses less energy for moving the car. But the extra time it takes getting somewhere doing that means the AC runs for longer, and the AC ends up using more extra energy than coasting to a stop saves. (I've been trying to figure out how many kW the AC uses, but it's tough because (1) temperature varies, and (2) the AC's radiator is less effective when it's cooled via a fan rather than air going through the grill as the car moves.)

I haven't been able to figure out if there's an efficiency difference between D1, D2, D3, and B. Theoretically I would think D1 is more efficient. But the tests I've done haven't been able to detect it. (Start at same speed, and put it into D1 vs B timed so you stop at the same location. Then look at the Wh the car's display says you recouped in that braking event. It's a bit of a PITA because that display seems to update once a minute or few minutes (been a while since I tested this), but doesn't tell you when an update ticks. So it can annoyingly update in the middle of a test run.)
 
Sure, we can go back to adding paddles. Best of luck!
I think what I'd want most is a "maintain the current speed using regenerative braking" mode. I've mainly been using only D and B modes in daily driving. I only touch D1-D3 on long downhill stretches where I want to use regenerative braking to maintain speed. Manually figuring out which D[1-3] mode will come closest to maintaining speed is annoying. And sometimes the slope of the hill changes as you go down. I've figured out the pattern for the hills closest to my house that I hit frequently. But figuring it out for new locations is a chore.
 
But if you're trying to use the least energy, you want to accelerate slightly past your target speed, then let off the accelerator to coast for a while. And when you're a bit below your target speed, give it a bit more acceleration to go past the target speed. Repeat. Basically the same as hyper-miling that hybrid owners figured out a decade ago.
This can't use the least energy—to accelerate past your target speed and then intentionally let the speed drop so that you have to accelerate again. You should accelerate to your target speed and then keep your speed there. Accelerating is the least efficient thing you can do, so you want to avoid it, not intentionally drive in a way that requires repeated acceleration. This is true regardless of what regen braking mode you use.
 
This can't use the least energy—to accelerate past your target speed and then intentionally let the speed drop so that you have to accelerate again. You should accelerate to your target speed and then keep your speed there. Accelerating is the least efficient thing you can do, so you want to avoid it, not intentionally drive in a way that requires repeated acceleration. This is true regardless of what regen braking mode you use.
Yeah, that's what intuitively makes sense. But what the hybrid owners figured out was that there are hotel loads (electricity used for things other than propulsion) which are present when you have the accelerator down, but disappear when you're coasting. So passing your target speed, then coasting for a while, minimizes those hotel loads. And the energy savings from that is greater than the inefficiency of not maintaining a constant speed.
 
Yeah, that's what intuitively makes sense. But what the hybrid owners figured out was that there are hotel loads (electricity used for things other than propulsion) which are present when you have the accelerator down, but disappear when you're coasting. So passing your target speed, then coasting for a while, minimizes those hotel loads. And the energy savings from that is greater than the inefficiency of not maintaining a constant speed.
I think we need a scientifically controlled study in an e-Golf to see which method is more efficient as “intuitive” does not always equate to empirical data.

This experiment needs to be performed over at least 50 miles of driving (maybe more) to be able to tease out the answer.

Who will perform the experiment and document the results?
 
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