Upgrade battery to 48kwh..

[aventuri]

It looks like a chinese firm Is going to sell 48kwh batteries for eGolf in Europe.

https://mtgbattery.com/volkswagen-e-glof/



Are you interested, eventually?

I talked with a guy on WhatsApp and he said they start end of year. I'll wait and see..

 

[f1geek]

It looks like a chinese firm Is going to sell 48kwh batteries for eGolf in Europe.

https://mtgbattery.com/volkswagen-e-glof/



Are you interested, eventually?

I talked with a guy on WhatsApp and he said they start end of year. I'll wait and see..

It is a bit suspect that the photos of the "e-Golf" shown are combustion Golfs. Also, energy density is barely better: 193 Wh/kg for original "large" pack and 202 Wh/kg for new pack. I think it should be on the order of 10 to 20% better gravimetric density considering the age of the 35.8 kWh pack.

 

[alevix]

certainly interested depending on the price!

 

[UranoMausBosch]

It is a bit suspect that the photos of the "e-Golf" shown are combustion Golfs. Also, energy density is barely better: 193 Wh/kg for original "large" pack and 202 Wh/kg for new pack. I think it should be on the order of 10 to 20% better gravimetric density considering the age of the 35.8 kWh pack.

MTG and CATL are both legit Chinese NCM battery suppliers, but agree, gas engine Golf image is incongruent.
Good note on density. New 48kWh pack = 238kg; Std 36kWh = 185kg.
Yes, additional "35% more energy" but also extra 30% more mass.
But... 208km vs 280km range (130 vs 175mi) does have some appeal as well.
I'm certainly curious - especially if pricing isn't outrageous.
Also wondering about complexity of updating battery management/ECM to recognize new higher capacity pack.
Though (optimistic) perhaps by point these new packs are available there will be "tuning" available for eGolf ECM...

 

[f1geek]

MTG and CATL are both legit Chinese NCM battery suppliers, but agree, gas engine Golf image is incongruent.
Good note on density. New 48kWh pack = 238kg; Std 36kWh = 185kg.
Yes, additional "35% more energy" but also extra 30% more mass.
But... 208km vs 280km range (130 vs 175mi) does have some appeal as well.
I'm certainly curious - especially if pricing isn't outrageous.
Also wondering about complexity of updating battery management/ECM to recognize new higher capacity pack.
Though (optimistic) perhaps by point these new packs are available there will be "tuning" available for eGolf ECM...

very very complex I suspect. For the expected large cost, range should be over 200 mi I think. Also, not sure e-Golf is a big enough market for a product like this, considering battery deg is minimal given passively cooled pack design.

 

[alevix]

very very complex I suspect. For the expected large cost, range should be over 200 mi I think. Also, not sure e-Golf is a big enough market for a product like this, considering battery deg is minimal given passively cooled pack design.

if not egolf, then which market with conscious edrivers would ever be? genuine newbie question, because i will always prefer ev with minimal battery deg, and not many options out there, still life changes, and range needs change. golf has 40y.

 

[CAsurfMobile]

My 2015 eGolf is on a pretty short leash now, at <70 miles, so yes, I'm interested, tho not in a big hurry. Upgrading the ECM/controller will be an issue. I wonder if I can keep the old battery as a home powerwall?

 

[Warsuth]

certainly interested depending on the price!

What price point would interest people?

 

[aventuri]

What price point would interest people?

i'm not the one asked to reply, anyway if i can express my opinion, i'd pay 100€/kWH.. i.e. for a 50kWh i'd pay 5K€ if the battery is reliable/insured/installed properly and so on

let me add also that after the EV battery upgrade, we would be left with the original as spare. and that would have some relevant value still: we could use as huge "energy storage" for home PV

OTOH if the installer would be willing to retire it, i thnk it could be valued a 60€ * 36KWh = 2K€

so the upgrade could be a 3K€ job. i'd like to know if thats' a reasonable approach

BTW the first "customers" should get a "better" treatment, as we are talking about taking kind of a risk, as we are pioneering a though implant: who knows it's going to be as smooth as we hope..

 

[Warsuth]

I want anyone’s input on what they think a reasonable price for a battery replacement would be.

 

[f1geek]

I want anyone’s input on what they think a reasonable price for a battery replacement would be.

Do you need one?

Assuming $100/kWh (probably optimistic) and 8 hours of labor I do not think this job can be performed for anything less than $6000.

 

[Fugazi]

I'd say $100/kWh is not realistic. For that price I would buy. Already to get the original for my house.

Another issue not mentioned here is; how easily (size) can you fit a bigger battery? From the specs the new sounded to be same energy density and this probably means it would be as much larger too.

 

[StoiceGolf]

We own a 2019 SE with approx 22K miles and approx 39 months on the battery warranty. We are charging it to 90% and we can drive it 70miles and still have 70 miles of range available.

I could see owning the car for 20 years. I could see replacing or upgrading the main battery pack once during that period. I think it would be reasonable if the cost was $6k to $10k for a replacement battery pack. Or a monthly cost in the range of $125.

At one time I heard that there was a program with the MB Smart EVs were the owners were actually leasing the battery packs and paying a monthly fee.

 

[UranoMausBosch]

I'd say $100/kWh is not realistic. For that price I would buy. Already to get the original for my house.

Another issue not mentioned here is; how easily (size) can you fit a bigger battery? From the specs the new sounded to be same energy density and this probably means it would be as much larger too.

Specs are "same density" but that does *not* mean same size - simply that more power = more mass.
I got a +25% capacity cell phone battery (old LG that actually had removable battery!) and it was noticeably heavier than factory/OE version - but also lasted noticeably longer (didn't need to recharge mid-day).
This seems similar - more power in same dimensions with greater mass.
Big questions are - "Worth it?" and "Possible?" - since onboard ECM/controls/charger would need to integrate with the increased capacity.

 

[UranoMausBosch]

Do you need one?

Assuming $100/kWh (probably optimistic) and 8 hours of labor I do not think this job can be performed for anything less than $6000.

This seems plausible/reasonable and if labor includes reprogramming system(s) to function together with new capacity, seems fair.
If you think that a similar level of work for a conventional car would be an engine-transmission swap, $6000 or so isn't that bad.
Based on recent GeoTab article that EV batteries degrade 1 - 1.5% / year, this might make sense in 3-5 years as eGolfs start to hit 10yrs old.
Here's the link, you can enter eGolf and it tracks at or slightly better than overall trend.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
I'm not really thinking of upgrading the battery now but would like to have an option to update the comparatively analogue eGolf that I enjoy so much.

 

[UranoMausBosch]

Specs are "same density" but that does *not* mean same size - simply that more power = more mass.
I got a +25% capacity cell phone battery (old LG that actually had removable battery!) and it was noticeably heavier than factory/OE version - but also lasted noticeably longer (didn't need to recharge mid-day).
This seems similar - more power in same dimensions with greater mass.
Big questions are - "Worth it?" and "Possible?" - since onboard ECM/controls/charger would need to integrate with the increased capacity.

To clarify - Phone battery was exact same *size* dimensionally - cover still fit perfectly. Also realizing that phone didn't require any changes to charger/OS/coding.
Wonder if a large EV traction battery would behave similarly... Which might make this "easier"

 

[mpulsiv]

We own a 2019 SE with approx 22K miles and approx 39 months on the battery warranty. We are charging it to 90% and we can drive it 70miles and still have 70 miles of range available.

I could see owning the car for 20 years. I could see replacing or upgrading the main battery pack once during that period. I think it would be reasonable if the cost was $6k to $10k for a replacement battery pack. Or a monthly cost in the range of $125.

At one time I heard that there was a program with the MB Smart EVs were the owners were actually leasing the battery packs and paying a monthly fee.

Miles are irrelevant. It's all about battery age and charge/discharge cycles.

 

[bgrizz]

Miles are irrelevant. It's all about battery age and charge/discharge cycles.

I don't see why. If he wants to drive 70 miles all that matters is the battery still has that amount of range. Why change it out based on age or cycles if you still have enough range for what you need/want?

 

[bgrizz]

Specs are "same density" but that does *not* mean same size - simply that more power = more mass.
I got a +25% capacity cell phone battery (old LG that actually had removable battery!) and it was noticeably heavier than factory/OE version - but also lasted noticeably longer (didn't need to recharge mid-day).
This seems similar - more power in same dimensions with greater mass.
Big questions are - "Worth it?" and "Possible?" - since onboard ECM/controls/charger would need to integrate with the increased capacity.

Same density means same mass to volume ratio. Same volume with more mass = higher density. To get more power with the same density the volume has to go up, i.e. bigger battery.

 

[f1geek]

Same density means same mass to volume ratio. Same volume with more mass = higher density. To get more power with the same density the volume has to go up, i.e. bigger battery.

I think you may be confusing energy density with gravimetric density.