Trailer wiring

[kataleen]

Any idea what that weight is doing to the brushes, and windings of your electric motor? Or to the battery pack.

Well, I would like to say that you have a point but unfortunately you got the wrong components to ask about. The brushes and windings (hoping that you are aware what they are and how they work) are not affected by putting a bit more strain (while within the nominal range) on the electric motor. The biggest enemy of the brushes is the copper dust and other contaminants from adjoining parts like oil/grease from bearings or water that somehow found its way into the motor. Windings really don't like heat from overloading a motor as the insulation can fail and destroy the motor. Both of these can occur when a motor is overloaded but most of the time are a result of manufacturing defects or imporper cleaning of the motor.

I'm not sure if I gave the impression that I'm towing on a daily basis and trailer-racing with my friends but this is for the rare odd-job that I'd rather put a small load behind in a trailer than in the trunk due to the size or cleanliness (read ... lack of). This was a bit of a maximum that I would try since it was close to the hitch limit. The tongue weight was quite small as I was able to lift the trailer tongue while loaded so I was also not worried about the weight on the rear axle. While driving normally I never exceeded or felt like I need to go over 50% of power while accelerating. I usually do a lot more than that on the steep hills around town where sometimes I am actually racing with gas guzzlers that barely keep up. No trailers involved!

It just happens that recently I found out the reasons behind EV manufacturers not allowing towing. (Please correct me if I'm wrong or anyone has better sources). It appears mainly connected to the weight of the battery pack. Being quite heavy, the manufacturers can't homologate the vehicle as the pull weight is drastically reduced. This would put extra strain on ... not windings or brushes, but on brakes mainly. Also the other problem is again under braking, the regen would tend to send too much energy into the batteries due to the extra kinetic energy thus running a chance of overwhelming the system. Range would also be drastically affected which would look bad on the sticker. (http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/160343/towing-with-a-hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-or-electric-car)

These do sound like good legitimate reasons. Brushes and windings...while driving like a sane person, not so much. Thanks for bringing it up though.

You should have bought a manual 6 speed TDI Golf instead. Seriously.

I hope you own this e-Golf and don't lease it.

Rest easy, I do own it and I would definitely be more cautious towing with a 6 speed gearbox from a wear point of view than a one-gear motor.

 

[Amadeus]

Any idea what that weight is doing to the brushes, and windings of your electric motor? Or to the battery pack.

I thought that the Synchronous AC Permanent Magnet motor was brushless. Anybody know for sure?

 

[miimura]

Any idea what that weight is doing to the brushes, and windings of your electric motor? Or to the battery pack.

I thought that the Synchronous AC Permanent Magnet motor was brushless. Anybody know for sure?

You are correct. There are no brushes on modern EV traction motors.

 

[kataleen]

It was a bit off to me too hearing this type of question for the first time related to an EV. I didn't have time to research if it's brushless or not, so I just applied my general knowledge on electric motors.
It's good to know that there's one less thing to worry about

 

[msvphoto]

I too thought the e-Golf was an AC induction motor so I don't think you have much worry there.

I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow. Old school (like the 1960s or maybe even 1970s) sticks were fine to tow with. I once owned a then new 1992 Ford F150 w/300ci straight six (massive torque) but since it had a 5 speed (Mazda sourced) stick towing was restricted to only 1500 pounds (with a full size pickup?!)

I used to tow a Moore 24 sailboat (around 3000 pounds with trailer) with a 1978 Toyota pickup around town and it did okay but the clutch suffered and started to slip.

If you're not using massive energy and doing short flat distances, probably okay...ish. Personally, I probably wouldn't risk it. That load looked pretty heavy. We sold our 2001 F150 to buy the e-Golf but that was after we sold our Hobie 18 it was a tow vehicle for and my wife shut down her gardening biz.

 

[RonDawg]

I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow.

Europeans don't seem to have that concern:

 

[JoulesThief]

I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow.

Europeans don't seem to have that concern:

Europeans are towing on the flats, down to France and Spain, from Benelux and DE, not in the Alps or mountains, with their caravans. Having towed a 21 foot Palomino Gazelle behind a 2013 Touareg TDI, there's no way in hell in the western USA that I'd tow a caravan with any model Golf. Just not enough brakes to be safe, not with the way Americans drive in the foothills and mountains. Just driving to Kernville CA from N Los Angeles, a travel trailer is a handful. Anyone that says it tows like nothing is back there at all is ignorant or very inexperienced in towing. Stand on the throttle hard or step on the brakes hard, or get in a crosswind of 20 mph or more, or get passed by someone with a flat fronted Class A motor home that pushes that trailer at the hitch like a pivot point from the air wave front, and you'll know exactly what I mean by the tail wagging the dog. Even with a weight distribution hitch and anti sway features, it's a white knucker. BTW the Touareg is built on a Truck chassis /unibody, designed for up to 7700 # tow capacity and 770# tongue weight on a class III 2" box hitch. Been to Breckenridge, CO for Breck Epic mtn bike races, Yellowstone 8 times, up to Missoula, over to Clarkston, Lewiston, Portland and down the coast of OR with that Palomino. It's a big handful, at 60 mph towing. Really don't care what the Europeans do, it's what Americans do, on American roads. When in Rome, do like the Romans do.

 

[RonDawg]

I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow.

Europeans don't seem to have that concern:

Europeans are towing on the flats, down to France and Spain, from Benelux and DE, not in the Alps or mountains, with their caravans.

Trust me, having traveled throughout Europe including the Alps, they tow anywhere they legally can. They hold everybody up; Top Gear did an episode on this several years ago, using a Kia Cerato -- Forte 5 diesel as the tow vehicle. But they do it.

In reality, they're no slower than the big trucks on those same roads.

 

[JoulesThief]

Europeans are towing on the flats, down to France and Spain, from Benelux and DE, not in the Alps or mountains, with their caravans.

Trust me, having traveled throughout Europe including the Alps, they tow anywhere they legally can. They hold everybody up; Top Gear did an episode on this several years ago, using a Kia Cerato -- Forte 5 diesel as the tow vehicle. But they do it.

In reality, they're no slower than the big trucks on those same roads.

They are all light duty diesel motors. There's no replacement for displacement, when you need to get work done, without compromising longevity or exceeding engineering limitations. German car makers integrate all their systems. Europe has many countries that have an 8 year life cycle for a vehicle. 8 years, and they want the vehicle off the public roads. Scrapped. Not so in the USA.

 

[RonDawg]

Europe has many countries that have an 8 year life cycle for a vehicle. 8 years, and they want the vehicle off the public roads. Scrapped. Not so in the USA.

I've never heard of such a thing. And I've been to Europe a few times and know a few residents and have seen cars older than 8 years on the roads. One European guy I know has a 40+ year old Land Rover and a near 60 year old DAF (it was his grandmother's car). Certain European countries (Sweden especially) love classic American cars, and in Germany any classic car is colloquially referred to as an "oldtimer" even though that's an English word.

As long as the car passes MOT/TUV/etc. it can be registered. The only constraints I have seen are recent attempts in a few cities like Paris to ban ICEVs older than a certain age in the city center, or Germany's "umweltzone" system where your car is issued a sticker with a color denoting how bad it pollutes, and authorities can ban certain colors from the city center. https://www.german-way.com/travel-and-tourism/driving-in-europe/driving/driving-in-germany-green-zones/

 

[msvphoto]

I thought the short number of years and done thing was Japan?

That trailer looks pretty lite. Probably 1/2 the weight the OP was hauling with the e-Golf. For occasional short distances with a sane driver, probably perfectly okay.

My point was tow ratings on American (Ford specifically since they are my American truck of choice) full size pickups with a stick (what few there may be, are there any?) for the past 3 decades are vastly lower than exactly the same vehicle with a slushbox. The days of towing with a stick being a good idea are long gone. Then again, if the automatic is really a manual with electronic clutch as found in many VAG cars now that may be even worse than a stick.

Of course if you don't care about longevity (those that buy or lease and flip every 3-4 years) then it is a non-issue aside from putting abused cars into the used market pool for bottom feeders like me to buy (I tend to buy most of my cars with at least 100k miles on them for the past 25 or so years now).

 

[RonDawg]

I thought the short number of years and done thing was Japan?

And that's a myth too. I've also been to Japan and seen a few older cars, including a few older American cars.

 

[miimura]

Neither Germany nor Japan ban older cars, they just have onerous inspection programs that many people don't want to bother with. Cars that have value as a classic are worth the trouble.

 

[RonDawg]

Neither Germany nor Japan ban older cars, they just have onerous inspection programs that many people don't want to bother with. Cars that have value as a classic are worth the trouble.

Even then, Japan's "shaken" isn't as onerous as westerners are led to believe. https://jalopnik.com/my-first-japanese-shaken-1631615164/1631622802

The reality is that used cars are simply not popular with the Japanese, so their value plummets more steeply than the same car in the US, and when you throw in the costs of the inspection ($700 to over $2k according to the article) many Japanese feel it's worth it to simply get a new car. They look at cars the way we Americans look at non-Apple consumer electronics: disposable.

Germanys TÜV is pretty onerous too, but Germans don't look at cars as being nearly as disposable at the Japanese do. My guess is new car taxation may have a lot to do with that; in 2009, I visited a multi-brand VAG dealership in downtown Berlin, a stone's throw from Checkpoint Charlie, and noticed that a Golf on the showroom floor was priced at EUR 34k!!!! It wasn't a GTI or an R, just a regular Golf diesel, albeit in a higher trim level.

 

[Thorallophon]

It was a bit off to me too hearing this type of question for the first time related to an EV. I didn't have time to research if it's brushless or not, so I just applied my general knowledge on electric motors.
It's good to know that there's one less thing to worry about

I've been thinking of adding a hitch to mine. Thank you for the pics and wiring harness info. I have to admit though that I'm also worried about the parking sensor going off.

Did you have trouble with it? Have other people with hitches and bike racks have the sensor go off?

I know in the spring after receiving my car, the drive into work was often crazy as the sensors would beep because of all the slush and spray build-up on the bumper(s). The last thing I need is the car e-braking on the highway because it suddenly senses the bike rack!

 

[Thorallophon]

Just thought i would post an update here. Maybe it should be in a new thread but I didn't think it was warranted.

So in late August I installed the hitch myself and have since been shopping around for someone to hook up the wiring harness. No one seems to want to take the risk, so it looks like I'll have to do it myself. It's just that I suck at pulling flaky plastic snaps without breaking them.

This holiday I hooked up a panier to haul extra gear to the family cottage (no lights required). A 200km trip that with only a slight (but noticeable) decrease in range. I don't have hard range numbers for you due to it being difficult to differentiate between the extra weight and the cold temperature that day. I will say, though we've made it all the way in the past, we always stop halfway to do a 15-30min L3 top off (80-90%). With two adults, two teenagers with associated gear for a two week stay in below freezing temps, and only L1 available at the destination, it makes the L3 charging stop almost a must.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155669996287172&set=gm.1591410361005797&type=3&theater

 

[NoSmoke]

Thanks seacycle. I kind of suspected that this is the case.
As much as I can understand that towing caravans and bigger thing is a questionable thing which requires the car to have certain qualities to be safe, towing a puny 4x7 foot open trailer won’t be even be noticed by the car. Heck, even I can pull fairly easy that trailer when loaded.

I'm not sure why VW seems so anal about towing. The specs seem to differ widely from continent to continent even for the same vehicle. Is there any compelling technical reason an e-golf can't tow a light trailer - is there a big difference between towing say 800 lbs and carrying 800 lbs of passengers or cargo? I dunno, maybe the body construction differs between an e-Golf and an ICE Golf such that a trailer hitch cannot be properly attached? Maybe the battery compartment gets in the way? I doubt it would be a power train limitation. Maybe there is concern about how the battery may react to a rear-end collision.

I would try asking the more popular trailer hitch installers if they have a product recommendation for the e-Gold.

 

[kmelara]

Does anyone know if hitches that have been used in the past, will work on my 2019 eGolf?