Overnight Charge

[FoxBend]

Hey - I am new to the forum and a new owner (2016 SE)

Wondering why when I charge overnight (from home with the provided charger from a wall outlet) I only seem to get 60mi of range showing. Am I missing something - When I left the dealer and they had it charged it showed 90 something. It was on all night, but seemed to stop at 60. At least in the car net app the little battery image showed as full. What gives? Any help or advice for a newbie is appreciated. THANKS!

 

[golfsok]

How many hours did you actually charge ? I saw somewhere that to get it really fully charged it takes even longer that 12 hours.

 

[DasCC]

Hey - I am new to the forum and a new owner (2016 SE)

Wondering why when I charge overnight (from home with the provided charger from a wall outlet) I only seem to get 60mi of range showing. Am I missing something - When I left the dealer and they had it charged it showed 90 something. It was on all night, but seemed to stop at 60. At least in the car net app the little battery image showed as full. What gives? Any help or advice for a newbie is appreciated. THANKS!

is your battery completely depleted when you plug it in? Mine gives an estimated time of about 10 hours when I've used half of the battery

 

[miimura]

Only the battery level gauge tells you how full the battery is. The Range estimate is a combination of the battery level and the efficiency of your driving history. The battery level gauge is the small one in the picture below.

It can take 18 hours to charge from completely empty to completely full with the provided 120V charging cord.

 

[FoxBend]

Ah you got me. I was looking at the trip info number and not the dial gauge- it was plugged in all afternoon and evening (20+ hours) - Still only showed 60 on the info screen which seems weird / low, but I'll pay more attention to the gauge and see if that is accurate. It's only been driven about 3 times now so maybe that number is coming from the average and will go up.

 

[JoulesThief]

Ah you got me. I was looking at the trip info number and not the dial gauge- it was plugged in all afternoon and evening (20+ hours) - Still only showed 60 on the info screen which seems weird / low, but I'll pay more attention to the gauge and see if that is accurate. It's only been driven about 3 times now so maybe that number is coming from the average and will go up.

Turn off the fan, the AC, all the electrical consumers, with the car ready to run, and with the battery needle full up, and you'll see the range increase. Also, go in on infotainment center, and see how many miles per Kwh you get on "This Last Charge" and report back here.

 

[miimura]

Also, if you take a lot of short trips and live at the top of a hill, it will show an abnormally low number for the range estimate in the morning after charging.

 

[FoxBend]

It's much better this am. Showed 75miles and wasn't even at a full charge. Was avg 4-5kw/mi the last couple days. There are a lot of short trips and we finish our commute driving up a hill.

 

[JoulesThief]

It's much better this am. Showed 75miles and wasn't even at a full charge. Was avg 4-5kw/mi the last couple days. There are a lot of short trips and we finish our commute driving up a hill.

Get your car fully charged, and get back to us with the range number of miles. Keep in mind, this is a one time full charge, you will want to stop short of a full charge, and use the "B" portion on the shifter going down hill first thing in the morning, to recapture some charge... which is why you don't want your battery fully charged first thing in the morning, you'd like it just shy, so that you can use electric braking instead of burning up your brake pads going down hill in the morning, you need a little space in the battery to top off for electric braking to function.

 

[LaFleur]

Interesting... came searching the forum for just this issue. We have a 2015 leased new in mid-September. Been charging overnight and regularly getting 85-90 range showing in the morning. However suddenly even with the battery indicator showing "full", range estimate tops out at about 66. I don't feel like our driving habits have changed at all - back & forth to work (20ish miles round trip), short trips around town on weekends. Does it seem normal that the estimated range on a full charge would drop off by ~25% so suddenly?

 

[JoulesThief]

Interesting... came searching the forum for just this issue. We have a 2015 leased new in mid-September. Been charging overnight and regularly getting 85-90 range showing in the morning. However suddenly even with the battery indicator showing "full", range estimate tops out at about 66. I don't feel like our driving habits have changed at all - back & forth to work (20ish miles round trip), short trips around town on weekends. Does it seem normal that the estimated range on a full charge would drop off by ~25% so suddenly?

Are you running the AC or the heater more frequently now than in mid Sept? Lower temps near freezing at night lower the potential range per charge on a battery also.

 

[bizzle]

It's much better this am. Showed 75miles and wasn't even at a full charge. Was avg 4-5kw/mi the last couple days. There are a lot of short trips and we finish our commute driving up a hill.

Get your car fully charged, and get back to us with the range number of miles. Keep in mind, this is a one time full charge, you will want to stop short of a full charge, and use the "B" portion on the shifter going down hill first thing in the morning, to recapture some charge... which is why you don't want your battery fully charged first thing in the morning, you'd like it just shy, so that you can use electric braking instead of burning up your brake pads going down hill in the morning, you need a little space in the battery to top off for electric braking to function.

I know it doesn't feed juice to a full battery, but that's surprising that it actually changes the functionality of the brakes if you have a full battery. Is there a thread discussing that you can link me?

 

[JoulesThief]

It's much better this am. Showed 75miles and wasn't even at a full charge. Was avg 4-5kw/mi the last couple days. There are a lot of short trips and we finish our commute driving up a hill.

Get your car fully charged, and get back to us with the range number of miles. Keep in mind, this is a one time full charge, you will want to stop short of a full charge, and use the "B" portion on the shifter going down hill first thing in the morning, to recapture some charge... which is why you don't want your battery fully charged first thing in the morning, you'd like it just shy, so that you can use electric braking instead of burning up your brake pads going down hill in the morning, you need a little space in the battery to top off for electric braking to function.

I know it doesn't feed juice to a full battery, but that's surprising that it actually changes the functionality of the brakes if you have a full battery. Is there a thread discussing that you can link me?

Not off the top of my head, try your Google-fu.

It's a known fact that if you are going to brake using regeneration, you need a load of electricity to go somewhere, and a nearly fully charged battery does not provide that load, the brake pads instead get used. However, you can avoid this if you know you go down hill early in your driving, and not charge fully, instead, stop charing at 80% full, and then you do have regeneration braking.

 

[bizzle]

I know it doesn't feed juice to a full battery, but that's surprising that it actually changes the functionality of the brakes if you have a full battery. Is there a thread discussing that you can link me?

Not off the top of my head, try your Google-fu.

It's a known fact that if you are going to brake using regeneration, you need a load of electricity to go somewhere, and a nearly fully charged battery does not provide that load, the brake pads instead get used. However, you can avoid this if you know you go down hill early in your driving, and not charge fully, instead, stop charing at 80% full, and then you do have regeneration braking.

A "fully" charged battery still has reserves that can be charged and there are numerous ways for motors to shed excess energy or not generate energy in the first place when they don't need to. I'm very skeptical that the friction brakes are applied without driver interaction. I did follow your advice on googling this question and everything I read seems to support the conclusion I came to. I couldn't find anything specific about the e-golf, however, and if there's nothing on the forum speaking to the issue it seems to come down to your opinion vs. mine on until we find an authoritative and definitive answer.

That said, if your opinion on the matter is based on the common knowledge that motors need to put their energy somewhere and if the battery isn't low there's no way for the energy to go somewhere so it resorts to mechanical brakes, that's a misinterpretation of how motors can and often operate. When the manual speaks of not utilizing regenerative braking when the battery is full I really think it's best to interpret that as the regenerative capabilities no longer send juice to the battery and not that the entire process of non-mechanical brakes shuts off. The ways in which is would protect the battery is a technical explanation that has no place in a user manual or for almost all of the population reading it. If nothing else, if it switched to mechanical brakes on steep grades after the battery was full that fact should be mentioned in the manual because it presents safety concerns for drivers.

 

[JoulesThief]

I know it doesn't feed juice to a full battery, but that's surprising that it actually changes the functionality of the brakes if you have a full battery. Is there a thread discussing that you can link me?

Not off the top of my head, try your Google-fu.

It's a known fact that if you are going to brake using regeneration, you need a load of electricity to go somewhere, and a nearly fully charged battery does not provide that load, the brake pads instead get used. However, you can avoid this if you know you go down hill early in your driving, and not charge fully, instead, stop charing at 80% full, and then you do have regeneration braking.

A "fully" charged battery still has reserves that can be charged and there are numerous ways for motors to shed excess energy or not generate energy in the first place when they don't need to. I'm very skeptical that the friction brakes are applied without driver interaction. I did follow your advice on googling this question and everything I read seems to support the conclusion I came to. I couldn't find anything specific about the e-golf, however, and if there's nothing on the forum speaking to the issue it seems to come down to your opinion vs. mine on until we find an authoritative and definitive answer.

That said, if your opinion on the matter is based on the common knowledge that motors need to put their energy somewhere and if the battery isn't low there's no way for the energy to go somewhere so it resorts to mechanical brakes, that's a misinterpretation of how motors can and often operate. When the manual speaks of not utilizing regenerative braking when the battery is full I really think it's best to interpret that as the regenerative capabilities no longer send juice to the battery and not that the entire process of non-mechanical brakes shuts off. The ways in which is would protect the battery is a technical explanation that has no place in a user manual or for almost all of the population reading it. If nothing else, if it switched to mechanical brakes on steep grades after the battery was full that fact should be mentioned in the manual because it presents safety concerns for drivers.

Tell you what, go fully charge your battery, then get on a 50 mph Blvd, and with the battery fully charged, put the stick in "B" mode and tell me how quickly you slow down, versus using "B" mode at 50 MPH with only 60 miles range left. That should answer your question whether it's my opinion or not. I don't recall where I read it, maybe in the owners manual, but I have read it, and I have observed how ineffectual "B" mode is on a nearly fully charged batter enough times in my month of ownership to state it as fact. "B"mode is ineffective when the battery is nearly fully charged, for the purposes of braking or slowing the car down effectively, versus when the battery is in a lesser state of charge, say 90% or less.

"Regenerative braking settings. In addition to the driving modes, the regenerative braking system can also be used to manage range. There are three driver-selectable levels available: “D1”, “D2”, and “D3”/”B”. To switch levels, the driver taps the “shift” lever to the left once, twice, or three times. Tapping the knob to the right moves sequentially back to “D”. If the lever is pushed to the right and briefly held there, the electronics switch straight back to “D”. The driver activates regenerative braking level “B”, which is the same as “D3”, by pulling the lever backwards.

In an electric car this amount of flexibility can lead to a different way of driving. It is possible to use regenerative braking consciously to slow the e-Golf down. Level “D1” regenerates energy and slows down the car the least, while level “B” has the strongest effect. At levels “D2”, “D3” and “B”, the deceleration via regenerative braking is so strong that the brake lights come on automatically. However, if the battery is fully charged, no energy regeneration takes place."

http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-releases-details-2015-e-golf/

 

[bizzle]

Alright, I'll test it when my wife gets home later this evening.

As I wrote earlier, I read a similar explanation in the manual (although the manual states that D3 and B are different modes, and my wife told me taillights only came on when I was in B mode and not in D3) but stating that no regeneration takes place when the battery is full is a different statement than no passive braking takes place.

 

[JoulesThief]

Glad you got it all figured out.

 

[miimura]

If your fully charged range is suddenly different, look at the CarNet app or web site and look at your driving history. If the efficiency numbers are suddenly lower, that will explain it. I always see a correlation there.

I can vouch for the fact that when the battery is full, there is very little regen available. When I drive down the hill from my house in D2, the needle barely goes into the green at all and I have to use the brake pedal to keep the speed down where I would not have to if the regen was all there.

 

[ulrichw]

Alright, I'll test it when my wife gets home later this evening.

As I wrote earlier, I read a similar explanation in the manual (although the manual states that D3 and B are different modes, and my wife told me taillights only came on when I was in B mode and not in D3) but stating that no regeneration takes place when the battery is full is a different statement than no passive braking takes place.

I have a 2016 SE; I've made the observation that I get some level of regen braking even after fully charging, but it'll only go to the first white hash mark in the range (out of three).

I have to drive a few miles before it'll get into the higher levels.

BTW: I interpreted Joulesthief's statement about the friction brakes a little differently from the way I believe you did. I don't think he was saying that the brakes are automatically applied on the downhill with a full battery - I think he meant that since regen braking will be bleeding off less speed, you'll be forced to manually apply the brakes to control your speed.

Finally: in terms of your statement about the car's not using the friction brakes automatically, I'm wondering about that - I've noticed that at very low speeds (somewhere around 15mph) the amount of deceleration in B mode appears to increase somewhat suddenly. I'm thinking the car may apply the brakes to maintain some level of deceleration, since regen will be less effective at lower speeds. I do think you're probably right about the car's not using the friction brakes at higher speeds without the driver's hitting the brake pedal.

 

[bizzle]

I can vouch for the fact that when the battery is full, there is very little regen available. When I drive down the hill from my house in D2, the needle barely goes into the green at all and I have to use the brake pedal to keep the speed down where I would not have to if the regen was all there.

The question is not whether the car regens when the battery is full, the question is whether the car uses motor braking without regenerating a full battery vs. not using the motor to brake the car while relying on friction brakes.

The manual clearly states that regeneration does not occur when the battery is full, and they call that process "regenerative braking," but that's a different thing from using the motor to slow the vehicle vs. using the friction brakes to slow the vehicle.

The car uses complex algorithms to switch between the two. The eGolf doesn't use friction brakes at all so long as it doesn't have to, for example a panic stop, even when you depress the brake pedal.

Whether you slow the car with B or slow it with your foot, it does the same thing (motor braking until it can't stop anymore and then compliments that with friction braking). The process of sending juice to the batteries through stopping with the motor is "regenerative braking."

BTW: I interpreted Joulesthief's statement about the friction brakes a little differently from the way I believe you did. I don't think he was saying that the brakes are automatically applied on the downhill with a full battery - I think he meant that since regen braking will be bleeding off less speed, you'll be forced to manually apply the brakes to control your speed.

Let's make sure we're on the same page. When you depress the brake pedal you are still using motor braking (regenerative braking if the battery can take a charge). When he says this

a nearly fully charged battery does not provide that load, the brake pads instead get used.

he's saying that when you apply the brakes with your foot, if the battery doesn't need charging it will immediately use the friction brakes rather than the motor. My point is that the motor can still slow the vehicle without using the friction pads and without sending juice to the battery.

In trains, they use large banks of capacitors. In our cars, in hybrids they spin the engine to shed heat, and in our cars they could wind the motor at a safe rate to shed that excess heat as well (and could be why he's feeling degenerative braking power in B at full charge).