Newer e-Golfs at a loss in Miles/kWh

[JoulesThief]

https://insideevs.com/news/379026/2020-volkswagen-e-golf-lower-epa-range/


In another post here, somewhere, I noted that I have test driven 5 different 2019 SEL models in the past week, and that I am struggling in around town driving to get 5.3 miles / kWh.

This is in comparison to my 2015 SEL e-Golf with the smaller 120 hp rated made in Germany electrical motor. The newer electric motors are made in China. I don't know when the production shift changed for sourcing the motors out of China.

What I can say is this: IMHO some changes they made have really hurt the miles per kWh in the 5 samples I have driven. They are nowhere near as efficient as the smaller 120 HP wound motors featured in the 2015's or 2016's.

YMMV, don't hate the observations, or the messenger that's delivering it. I suspect it's in the wire in the windings of the motor. Makes 15 more HP, but the windings for the armature aren't nearly as efficient as the original design from 2015 to 2016, for the extra HP.

To all of the new owners with the 35.6 kWh battery and 135 HP motors... don't hate on an original 2015 owner because you can't get the miles per kWh I do, or get frustrated with your range. You got more HP, nothing is free, you get to pay for it with decreased Miles /kWh. It's a trade off, you wanted sporty, you got it, with less range and efficiency.

If the day ever comes that I can make a replacement 35.6 kWh battery work and operate in my 2015, at a reasonable price, I may consider doing the swap, once my current battery turns to toast

 

[2016golfse]

To all of the new owners with the 35.6 kWh battery and 135 HP motors... don't hate on an original 2015 owner because you can't get the miles per kWh I do, or get frustrated with your range. You got more HP, nothing is free, you get to pay for it with decreased Miles /kWh. It's a trade off, you wanted sporty, you got it, with less range and efficiency.

I've never seen anyone post their dissatisfaction when switching from a 2015/2016 to the longer range models (myself included). Perhaps they're too busy enjoying more HP, more range, more flexibility, less frequent charging, additional DAP features, and Android Auto/Carplay. I will gladly sacrifice the slight drop in efficiency for all of that in return.

Just out of curiosity, how much extra in fuel cost per year would that efficiency loss cost you? $40? Less than $40?

 

[JoulesThief]

To all of the new owners with the 35.6 kWh battery and 135 HP motors... don't hate on an original 2015 owner because you can't get the miles per kWh I do, or get frustrated with your range. You got more HP, nothing is free, you get to pay for it with decreased Miles /kWh. It's a trade off, you wanted sporty, you got it, with less range and efficiency.

I've never seen anyone post their dissatisfaction when switching from a 2015/2016 to the longer range models (myself included). Perhaps they're too busy enjoying more HP, more range, more flexibility, less frequent charging, additional DAP features, and Android Auto/Carplay. I will gladly sacrifice the slight drop in efficiency for all of that in return.

Just out of curiosity, how much extra in fuel cost per year would that efficiency loss cost you? $40? Less than $40?

The difference is wanting it, vs needing it. I don't feel the range increase is worth the asking price for a 35.6 kWh battery that's been unchanged for 3 model years. Even though the car battery is 50% more capacity, I'm not seeing folks getting 50% more range over a 2015 or 2016 e-Golf SEL. There's no HP gained or needed when most of my driving is at 40 to 45 mph speed limits or less, on city streets.

Something just tells me VW is cutting corners again, that there is the loss in efficiency, when they claimed it was more efficient than earlier e-Golf models. Things aren't what they are advertising, vs real world results.

 

[cctop]

As a counter-point, as a conservative driver whose daily commute includes lots of hilly city streets and some highway miles (55mph in the right lane), whose long-term efficiency is 4.4 to 4.6 mi/kWh depending on temperature, after two months with the 2019 SE I've found the efficiency to be about the same as the 2016 SE.

My impression, without any hard data to back it up, is that the 2019 is slightly more efficient at highway speeds and slightly less efficient at city speeds.

With my commute, I wouldn't be surprised to see a slight overall drop in long-term efficiency to 4.3 to 4.5 mi/kWh. But I'm going to wait to reserve judgment until I have a year under my belt. I suspect that the ambient temperature has a greater effect on the efficiency than the model year.

 

[2016golfse]

The difference is wanting it, vs needing it. I don't feel the range increase is worth the asking price for a 35.6 kWh battery that's been unchanged for 3 model years. Even though the car battery is 50% more capacity, I'm not seeing folks getting 50% more range over a 2015 or 2016 e-Golf SEL. There's no HP gained or needed when most of my driving is at 40 to 45 mph speed limits or less, on city streets.

Something just tells me VW is cutting corners again, that there is the loss in efficiency, when they claimed it was more efficient than earlier e-Golf models. Things aren't what they are advertising, vs real world results.

You've already stated this many times: that you don't want the extra battery capacity nor need it. That said, like 'cctop' I haven't noticed any significant change in efficiency and have averaged 5.0 mi/kWh in hilly San Francisco driving over the past 3 months. I also just completed a 225 mi freeway trip averaging 4.71 mi/kWh with one mid-trip charge and going twice over the Altamont Pass. Impossible in a 2015/2016, and I do believe freeway efficiency has improved. Since I've owned both vehicles (compared to mere test-drives), so fair to say that many here are more qualified than you to judge the changes in efficiency. It's also possible that you haven't adapted your driving technique to the newer car, just as it's possible that the car is slightly less efficient in city driving.

That said, you still haven't answered the question: "How much extra in fuel cost per year would that efficiency loss cost you? $40? Less than $40?"

 

[JoulesThief]

The difference is wanting it, vs needing it. I don't feel the range increase is worth the asking price for a 35.6 kWh battery that's been unchanged for 3 model years. Even though the car battery is 50% more capacity, I'm not seeing folks getting 50% more range over a 2015 or 2016 e-Golf SEL. There's no HP gained or needed when most of my driving is at 40 to 45 mph speed limits or less, on city streets.

Something just tells me VW is cutting corners again, that there is the loss in efficiency, when they claimed it was more efficient than earlier e-Golf models. Things aren't what they are advertising, vs real world results.

You've already stated this many times: that you don't want the extra battery capacity nor need it. That said, like 'cctop' I haven't noticed any significant change in efficiency and have averaged 5.0 mi/kWh in hilly San Francisco driving over the past 3 months. I also just completed a 225 mi freeway trip averaging 4.71 mi/kWh with one mid-trip charge and going twice over the Altamont Pass. Impossible in a 2015/2016, and I do believe freeway efficiency has improved. Since I've owned both vehicles (compared to mere test-drives), so fair to say that many here are more qualified than you to judge the changes in efficiency. It's also possible that you haven't adapted your driving technique to the newer car, just as it's possible that the car is slightly less efficient in city driving.

That said, you still haven't answered the question: "How much extra in fuel cost per year would that efficiency loss cost you? $40? Less than $40?"

Zero, it doesn't run on fuel, it runs on electricity.

If you want the details, figure 6000 miles per year at 6.0 miles/ kWh vs 5.3 miles /kWh at 0.177 per kWh, x a factor of about 1.1, due to energy lost recharging through the charger pack and EVSE..

Also throw in my interest charges for $15,000 for 3 months at 5.6%, before being paid off in full, my increase in registration fees annually, and sales tax at 9.5% on $29,425 and an $85 documentation fee. Those are the additional charges for the 1st year.

Cost increase is more comprehensive than just cost of electricity.

 

[2016golfse]

I knew it would be under $40! $38.94 per year to be exact. I'll gladly pay that fuel/energy cost for the extra power and flexibility and range. I'm actually disappointed you only got 5.3 mi/kWh because that isn't much better than me especially given your topography. Either I drive really slow (too), or your hypermiling techniques simply aren't worth the effort.

Why are you bringing up interest, registration, and other costs? You started this thread to discuss efficiency, and I have stayed on point.

 

[JoulesThief]

I knew it would be under $40! $38.94 per year to be exact. I'll gladly pay that fuel/energy cost for the extra power and flexibility and range. I'm actually disappointed you only got 5.3 mi/kWh because that isn't much better than me especially given your topography. Either I drive really slow (too), or your hypermiling techniques simply aren't worth the effort.

Why are you bringing up interest, registration, and other costs? You started this thread to discuss efficiency, and I have stayed on point.

Cost increase is more comprehensive than just cost of electricity.

Can I afford a 2019 e-Golf SEL... yes. Do I feel it's worth it at $28450, compared to the SE at $22300, no. There's not $6,000 more in added value features, IMHO. The SE is a far better value after another $7500 tax credit and $2500 CA state rebate. All I would need to add to the SE is HID's or LED headlight bulbs. I rarely or never use the heater, I don't use the infotainment system, the analogue gauges are fine with me too.

VW has offered 3 or 4 years of E-Golf with no improvements in range or battery capacity. I'm probably just better off waiting for the next generation of electric cars from VW. Or maybe pick up a low mileage off lease 2017 or 2018 in a year or so. Or best value is just to keep my 2015 SEL and run it into the ground for another 6 to 8 years.