Most efficient LRR tire to replace Ecopia 422
- Thread starter mpulsiv
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Ecopia 422 is the king of efficiency, period.
Recently,, I switched to Nokian One. Have been really impressed with it.
$137: www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/nokian-tire-one?cjevent=926cb8b901a011ef802401d80a1eba23&CJAID=13390473&CJPID=100357191
I paid $104/tire but it's currently unavailable www.amazon.com/dp/B09BF7F9T1
Recently,, I switched to Nokian One. Have been really impressed with it.
- Grips in dry and wet is superior to Ecopia 422
- Much quieter
- Range impact ~5% including city and highway up 70 mph.
- This is based on extensive testing on the same day with the same temperature, same roads and handful of runs.
$137: www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/nokian-tire-one?cjevent=926cb8b901a011ef802401d80a1eba23&CJAID=13390473&CJPID=100357191
I paid $104/tire but it's currently unavailable www.amazon.com/dp/B09BF7F9T1
UranoMausBosch
Active member
Although efficiency is important, tires also provide essential traction for *everything* your vehicle does - move forward, stop, corner and also contribute to driving feel (tire flex is part of suspension) and noise (tread).
My 2019 came with ~11,000mi on stock/OE Ecopias, appeared to have "some tread life". General mi/kWh for first few 1000 miles was 4.3 - 4.4 (including winter, etc).
Dry traction wasn't good (noise/squeal at 25mph corner), wet traction was dismal, handling was horrid.
At about 15,000 mi Noticed an *ugly* sidewall bulge/goiter (dry-rot) on one tire and switched all four to Continental Extreme Contact DWS ("High Performance All Season") in 205/55-16.
Significant improvement in dry traction, better cornering, better wet traction (not much change from dry!!), quieter ride and improved handling.
Initial range was around 4.2mi/kWh (around 3% drop, which seemed to make sense, LRR tires only increase range 3-5%) but it was also new tires (taller tread "squirms" and increases friction, older tires are more efficient, regardless of LRR or not) summer (AC use) and didn't have them inflated to 41-42psi as I should've.
Now at 25,000 miles, running average 4.3-4.4mi/kWh, treadlife still looking healthy, tires continue to be solid, quiet, good handling, good ride. Even had reasonable traction in snow and 20-degree when I was out.
To summarize, my opinion is that Ecopia 422 are poor at *everything* a tire should do - go, stop and turn, both dry/wet and "OK" at efficiency.
Continental DWS have been delightful in all respects for what tires should do - go, stop and turn with basically no penalty in efficiency and noticeable quieter/smoother ride.
As they say, YMMV (Your mileage may vary) - but I won't be buying Ecopia (or any other LRR tire) for my eGolf again.
I'll be curious if mi/kW changes (improve?) with lighter wheels and a slight lowering. In which case, all the more support for good (performance) tires - just keep the pressure up!
My 2019 came with ~11,000mi on stock/OE Ecopias, appeared to have "some tread life". General mi/kWh for first few 1000 miles was 4.3 - 4.4 (including winter, etc).
Dry traction wasn't good (noise/squeal at 25mph corner), wet traction was dismal, handling was horrid.
At about 15,000 mi Noticed an *ugly* sidewall bulge/goiter (dry-rot) on one tire and switched all four to Continental Extreme Contact DWS ("High Performance All Season") in 205/55-16.
Significant improvement in dry traction, better cornering, better wet traction (not much change from dry!!), quieter ride and improved handling.
Initial range was around 4.2mi/kWh (around 3% drop, which seemed to make sense, LRR tires only increase range 3-5%) but it was also new tires (taller tread "squirms" and increases friction, older tires are more efficient, regardless of LRR or not) summer (AC use) and didn't have them inflated to 41-42psi as I should've.
Now at 25,000 miles, running average 4.3-4.4mi/kWh, treadlife still looking healthy, tires continue to be solid, quiet, good handling, good ride. Even had reasonable traction in snow and 20-degree when I was out.
To summarize, my opinion is that Ecopia 422 are poor at *everything* a tire should do - go, stop and turn, both dry/wet and "OK" at efficiency.
Continental DWS have been delightful in all respects for what tires should do - go, stop and turn with basically no penalty in efficiency and noticeable quieter/smoother ride.
As they say, YMMV (Your mileage may vary) - but I won't be buying Ecopia (or any other LRR tire) for my eGolf again.
I'll be curious if mi/kW changes (improve?) with lighter wheels and a slight lowering. In which case, all the more support for good (performance) tires - just keep the pressure up!
Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 is a fantastic tire. I have it on my Mercedes adventure vehicle.
I'm having a very hard time believing that your impact was only 3%. This tire is extreme grip by design, the complete opposite side of the spectrum from Ecopia. What was your test mythology?
To exhibit accurate results, you must repeat the runs on old tires (e.g., before dismount), then calculate average miles/kWh.
Next step is is head to a tire shop to mount new tires. Then repeat the same exercise on new tires.
- Attempt to do the runs on the same day. It's irrelevant if you are doing this during cold winters or hot summers. As long as the temperature is consistent. Climate control is irrelevant as well. Just ensure that it's consistent.
- Find a road, at least 10 miles long with some rolling hills.
- Accelerate and stop as normally would. Do your best to maintain the same speed. Ideally, when roads are clear of traffic. Sunday mornings is the best, while majority of drivers are still sleeping I did my runs throughout the range (e.g., 0 - 50 mph).
- Ensure outdoor temperature doesn't fluctuate more than ~10 degrees.
- Repeat this exercise 3-4 times and record average miles/kWh consumption.
My assumption is that you know how to reset this in settings, for every drive test your attempt. If not, read the owner's manual.
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I pretty much agree with everything above. I got my used 2016 e-Golf with what looked like original Ecopias. Car had 30k miles on it, so probably 50% tread. Used them for half a year (Jul-Jan in SoCal so no real difference in temp from Jan-Apr). I hated them. They'd squeal on starts, skid and lose grip in turns. Heck, my SUV could turn better. They felt dangerous in the rain. Average mi/kWh was 4.6 with daily highs of 5.0.
I ran over a screw during a turn and it embedded in the sidewall. Did a tire repair to get me going again (if you don't know yet, there is no spare tire). But there's no metal belt in that part of the tire, so you're supposed to replace the tire instead of relying on a tire repair. The damaged rubber can continue to tear like a growing crack, causing the tire to shred or explode. Ended up putting on a set of Michelin Defender 2 (well, Costco's version of it - the X Tour A/S 2).
I was worried about the hit to range, but I 100% do not regret the change. The car drives like a sports car now. I can throw it into tight turns and the tires maintain grip without making a sound. It turns much better than my SUV now. I still get a bit of chirping if I floor it from a stop, but it's substantially less than before. Grip in rain is much better - enough so that I pretty much drive the same in the rain as in dry conditions.
Average mi/kWh has dropped to 4.3 (-6.5%), with a daily high around 4.8 (-4%). But this seems to be slowly increasing as the tires get broken in (immediately after I put the tires on I was getting 4.1 - 4.2). So I'm expecting to lose only about 5% mi/kWh. Unless you're pushing the limits of the car's range in your daily commute (in which case you're probably killing the battery), IMHO it's totally worth it to get non-eco tires. The car is fun to drive now.
I will give the Ecopias props for stopping distance though. I had a crazy guy pull an illegal left turn in front of me (he had a red arrow). I had a green light and was approaching the intersection at 45 mph. Slammed on the brakes and the car stopped in about 100 ft, and he missed me by about 10 ft. Given how squirrely they felt in turns, I was suprised by how well they stopped the car. I guess if the full weight of the car transfers on to one axle with them, they can maintain grip.
UranoMausBosch
Active member
I wasn't trying "lab-certified" testing - back-to-back identical conditions/driving profile/road/same wheels with different tires - that is (for my view) trading accuracy for *relevance*.Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 is a fantastic tire. I have it on my Mercedes adventure vehicle.
I'm having a very hard time believing that your impact was only 3%. This tire is extreme grip by design, the complete opposite side of the spectrum from Ecopia. What was your test mythology?
To exhibit accurate results, you must repeat the runs on old tires (e.g., before dismount), then calculate average miles/kWh.
Next step is is head to a tire shop to mount new tires. Then repeat the same exercise on new tires.
This how I report consistent results because average kWh in last 10k miles is not a good metric to compare to. There are way too many variables that come into play.
- Attempt to do the runs on the same day. It's irrelevant if you are doing this during cold winters or hot summers. As long as the temperature is consistent. Climate control is irrelevant as well. Just ensure that it's consistent.
- Find a road, at least 10 miles long with some rolling hills.
- Accelerate and stop as normally would. Do your best to maintain the same speed. Ideally, when roads are clear of traffic. Sunday mornings is the best, while majority of drivers are still sleeping
- Ensure outdoor temperature doesn't fluctuate more than ~10 degrees.
- Repeat this exercise 3-4 times and record average miles/kWh consumption.
My assumption is that you know how to reset this in settings, for every drive test your attempt. If not, read the owner's manual.
Yes you may argue "too many variables" - but I'm interested in my own real-world example - me driving (with moments of gusto/enthusiasm) back and forth to work, school, groceries, with passengers and without) - rather than in a sterile control setting.
Strength of regen (which very much impacts efficiency) also varies with temperature and main battery SOC - first few miles efficiency numbers at 90% are worse than same miles at 70% SOC. I'm interested in a full-context perspective.
Used the onboard VW "Extended period" information that I'd logged monthly for Ecopia and now for Continental DWS.
Over several thousand miles of each, Ecopia were 4.4 - 4.5, DWS currently are 4.4 (warmer weather) and were 4.3 winter.
So worst case 4.3 vs 4.5 that's a 4-5% drop.
Or 4.3 vs 4.4 is right around 3% - which (unsurprise!!) is almost same as "lab-certified" and calibrated testing of economy advantage of LRR vs "normal" tires (see Consumer Reports and Tire Rack for specifics).
Fresh tires with full tread depth have greater rolling resistance (tread squirm/deformation while rolling) regardless of whether they are LRR or "Performance".
I was starting with Ecopia at 11,000mi and comparing to fresh DWS (and using AC for summer) which seemed to indicate a greater drop in range - as DWS have gotten some wear (now around 8500mi) efficiency has improved and has been sitting at 4.4 past 1000mi.
I'm hoping to broaden our conversation and share that eGolf feels better (to me) as a car - better acceleration/traction, better cornering wet/dry, better wet weather handling, improved braking and response over bumps/potholes and quieter cabin - with "performance tires" and daily usability/range/efficiency is minimally impacted.
I consider 3-5% "minimal" - it's obviously enough that VW (and other OE) put LRR tires on their cars, my guess is that achieving an EPA range of 125mi rather than 118mi (5% difference) was worth compromises that I prefer not to make.
Update now that I've had the new tires on for 5k miles. The mileage leveled out at around 4.4 mi/kWh. Versus 4.6 for the Ectopia. So a less than 5% loss in range. I would definitely ditch the Ectopias.
