driving distances w/ 2017 e-Golf

[ckdavis]

Do any of you know of websites to obtain driving distance estimates for the e-Golf? I've found a few that are good for Tesla owners, but not more general ones where one could type in distance travelled, elevation gain, temperature, etc. and get an estimate of how much of a charge you'd need to cover that distance.

I'm trying to figure out (without actually trying to drive the distance) if the 2017 e-Golf will make it on an 80 percent charge a distance of 30 miles with an elevation gain of about 6000 feet total. Basically driving from about 1000 foot elevation up into the mountains to an elevation of about 6700 feet. In theory it seems possible, but I know elevation gain really drains the battery, and I don't know how much I'd recoup on the downhill parts in making this climb.

I know I can try this drive and see if I can make it, but I'd rather get some idea before trying . . .

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[2016golfse]

Charge to 100 percent and try it, or climb just 2000 feet to determine if you're going to make it the rest of the way.

I personally think that it's a big strain on your battery to climb that high in such a short duration.

 

[f1geek]

Try the Leaf Beta setting from the drop down menu.

https://evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/

I've driven my 2015 e-Golf up a mountain 3200 feet starting with a 90% charge, drove 50 miles in total and arrived with ~15 miles of range left (used about 15 kWh). You may recoup some energy on downhills, but your net elevation gain of 5700 feet requires a lot of energy. Charge at the bottom of the mountain, drive slowly, put the car in ECO+ mode, turn off the heat and A/C and I think you will make it. If you don't make it, just turn around and recharge all the way down the mountain. You can't do that when your gas car runs out of dino juice.

 

[ckdavis]

Thank you for those suggestions. I did plug some numbers in the evtripplanner and it looks like a 15 kWh trip, so that seems like it's probably a go for the drive I'm thinking.

I'll try it sometime, but I'll probably leave the family and dogs behind just in case we don't make it. No one would be too happy if we had to turn around half way and drive back down the hill. . .

 

[miimura]

Another way to think about this is units conversion. Raising the weight of the car (~3,500 lb) 1,000 feet in elevation requires 1.32kWh of energy. So, depending on your driving efficiency, you need to deduct about 6 miles of range for each 1,000 feet of elevation gain. You should probably only add 5 miles of range for each 1,000 feet of elevation loss.

 

[forbin404]

On the fiat board they talk about how a 500e can climb Pikes Peak to the top (I guess a parking lot up there?) on a full charge and without charging go downhill and come out with 75%. (Cavaet - It threw up a power error due to the amount of regen it received)

 

[johnnylingo]

2017 e-Golf will make it on an 80 percent charge a distance of 30 miles with an elevation gain of about 6000 feet total

My morning commute starts with is a rise of 2000 ft over a distance of 14 miles. I'll typically get 2.5 mi/kWh over this stretch, so burn 5.6 kWh or 1/4th the battery. This is assuming reasonable speeds and no heat or A/C. On the descent I use regenerative braking and regain 1/32nd to 1/16th the battery or 1 kWh.

So i would guestimate a 30 mile / 6000 ft rise would use 12-15 kWh. A 2016 e-Golf with 80% charge would be cutting it close especially if heat or A/C are on, but a 2017 should be fine.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The other important variables are speed, and air temperature.

 

[forbin404]

The other important variables are speed, and air temperature.

As you said 'variables', @johnnylingo takes that trip daily so it's probably the most important.

 

[Voltron]

Even if you can make it, I would highly discourage doing this regularly. Climbing really ups the current drain and, high current (discharging or charging) along with very high or very low states of charge really kills the battery. Mountain driving is really tough on an EV - you're constantly switching between high discharge and high charge (from regen braking) states - your battery will get hot and stay hot.

For now, cars like the E-Golf are best for level ground, short distances, and mild climates.

 

[Verkehr]

Even if you can make it, I would highly discourage doing this regularly. Climbing really ups the current drain and, high current (discharging or charging) along with very high or very low states of charge really kills the battery. Mountain driving is really tough on an EV - you're constantly switching between high discharge and high charge (from regen braking) states - your battery will get hot and stay hot.

For now, cars like the E-Golf are best for level ground, short distances, and mild climates.

The battery doesn't get all that hot. Mine stays below 30c even on fast drives as long as long as the weather is cool. I've driven 9/10ths speed (i.e. full accel and full regen) on a back road 1000 ft climb and it only picked up a few degres C over ambient.

With this, I see EVs as better suited to hill driving than ICEs since they can harvest potential energy on the descent rather than create harmful brake dust.

 

[JoulesThief]

Even if you can make it, I would highly discourage doing this regularly. Climbing really ups the current drain and, high current (discharging or charging) along with very high or very low states of charge really kills the battery. Mountain driving is really tough on an EV - you're constantly switching between high discharge and high charge (from regen braking) states - your battery will get hot and stay hot.

For now, cars like the E-Golf are best for level ground, short distances, and mild climates.

/\ I can't emphasis enough how correct this statement above is. Using "B" mode to slow down is highly taxing on the battery receiving "blasting" high current recharging rates. For this reason alone, I don't use the "B" mode to slow down, I use D1, and apply the foot brake far in advance to keep the recharging rate moderate.

 

[JoulesThief]

Even if you can make it, I would highly discourage doing this regularly. Climbing really ups the current drain and, high current (discharging or charging) along with very high or very low states of charge really kills the battery. Mountain driving is really tough on an EV - you're constantly switching between high discharge and high charge (from regen braking) states - your battery will get hot and stay hot.

For now, cars like the E-Golf are best for level ground, short distances, and mild climates.

The battery doesn't get all that hot. Mine stays below 30c even on fast drives as long as long as the weather is cool. I've driven 9/10ths speed (i.e. full accel and full regen) on a back road 1000 ft climb and it only picked up a few degres C over ambient.

With this, I see EVs as better suited to hill driving than ICEs since they can harvest potential energy on the descent rather than create harmful brake dust.

Laughable that you are worried about harmful brake dust with all the ICE cars on the road producing mountains of it driving like idiots racing to every stop sign and red light. I'm just saying, the cost to replace an e-Golf battery is far higher than the cost of a brake job and a little bit of brake dust. Which is the metrics most people use in costs to operate a vehicle, per mile.

 

[Voltron]

JoulesThief: How do you monitor the battery temp?

Thanks

 

[JoulesThief]

JoulesThief: How do you monitor the battery temp?

Thanks

Let me share with you a really simple observation. Coming down a 1500 foot grade of 6 miles in about 5.5 minutes and watching D2 mode generating less and less "return" green on the dial, without the pitch increasing, because the battery, even though at a 60 to 65% SOC on the gas gauge, won't take any more electricity, and stepping on the brakes doesn't generate much more recharge "take" by the battery, tells me the recharge circuitry, on 98F day, on my way to Santa Barbara to see a Joe Bonamassa show in the afternoon, is telling me the battery is hot, and it's being protected by not taking any more recharge at the normal rate it did at the top of the grade, without significant pressure on the foot brake. That's a function of the temperature of the battery and the circuitry protecting itself. Camarillo grade, highway 101 between Newbury Park and Camarillo.


It's not "cool" here in Southern California, for much of the year. It's actually pretty warm. That I averaged 6.1 miles per kwh over 2000 miles long term, is telling me I am driving the car more efficiently than a rather large percentage of the other drivers on here, over the long term. Heat is the only limiting factor preventing the battery recharging. It takes about 4 kwh, as near as I can tell, to climb that same grade. There's no way it will even recharge 2 kwh going down it.

 

[f1geek]

I agree that high temps are the enemy of Li-ion batteries, but based on test data from the Leaf, I don’t think occasional mountain climbing is a disaster for the pack. If the e-Golf had battery cooling, then it would be a non-issue. If drive up a mountain in high ambient temps, then it will be more problematic for the pack.

 

[Farallon5]

We just got back from our first ever 500 mile EV road trip. This was an adventure that will be relegated to the history books in more ways than one. The 2016 e-Golf was admittedly never designed for such a trip, but unlike our trip to Yosemite last year (which we rented an ICE car for), this one promised decent availability of fast chargers all along the route. We learned a lot. Our real range for the trip at mostly freeway speeds over rolling terrain in 50-55F weather and to maintain some reserve to get to an alternative charger just-in-case was closer to 55 miles. We ended up driving for about 60-75 minutes and then charging for 30-40! Sometimes we had to reduce our speed to 40-45 to make sure we made it to the next charger! Whoa Nelly!

I think the main takeaway for road trips (if you are not driving a Tesla or a Bolt), is to drive a Tesla or a Bolt! Really, about 200 mile range should be considered the minimum for road trips. Otherwise, really get to know the various charging apps and be able to spot the most ideal stations along the route. Today that means EVgo 100Amp DC fast charging stations, and locations with more than one that are close to a cafe. The best app we have used so far is Plugshare, although it helps to have the Chargepoint and EVgo apps too. It is best to have 2 smartphones aboard--one doing the main navigation and the other looking up the most ideal charging spots. If your cellular signal is spotty you're hosed.

Bolt note: I spoke with the folks at EVgo about charging a Bolt. Currently their charger network is awaiting a software upgrade to enable being able to be connected to one charger for one long full charge. As it is now, the chargers will disconnect you after about 30 minutes and you would have to re-establish another charging se$$ion, paying the per-charge fee again. I'm estimating it would take you about 70-90 minutes to fully charge a depleted Bolt battery with a 100A charger! Remember, the fast chargers gradually taper-off as you approach 80-85% of capacity so as not to overheat your battery. At about 80%, they initially jump down to about 30A, then start to taper off from there down to 25-20 and ultimately about 15A and this can end up being 30% of your charge time. This is based on our 2016 e-Golf.

Side note for those traveling with the family: The intricacies of charging, interesting as they may be to us geeky types, are decidedly NOT interesting to non-geeky people who are used to the ICE car fueling paradigm. Be sure to factor in a large dose of patience and understanding. Starbuck's chai-lattes and iced lemon cake helps too.

 

[miimura]

EVgo has started rolling out the ability to charge longer than 30 minutes. I just heard a report this week from a EVgo member who is on the monthly plan that was able to charge for 40 minutes uninterrupted. If you don't have the monthly plan and pay per session + per minute, then the charger has to stop every 30 minutes to get you to authorize another session fee. Having it blindly charging you an additional $5 because you went 30 seconds over 30 mintues would be far worse. Of course, they could prorate the session fee and just charge $0.35/minute after the first 30 minutes.

 

[f1geek]

I spoke with EVgo and the customer service rep. indicated that even those on Pay As You Go plans would get 40-45 minute session times by default (when I spoke to EVgo, they hadn't chosen a time limit yet). Maybe it's a staggered release, with subscribers being the first to get the extra session time. EVgo has realized that the current BEV generation needs more time to get to 80% thanks to larger battery capacity.

I am hoping that EVgo and others will start offering DC Fast Chargers that run up to 150 kW so that ~60 kWh equipped BEVs can charge to 80% in ~20 minutes.

 

[miimura]

I spoke with EVgo and the customer service rep. indicated that even those on Pay As You Go plans would get 40-45 minute session times by default (when I spoke to EVgo, they hadn't chosen a time limit yet). Maybe it's a staggered release, with subscribers being the first to get the extra session time. EVgo has realized that the current BEV generation needs more time to get to 80% thanks to larger battery capacity.

I am hoping that EVgo and others will start offering DC Fast Chargers that run up to 150 kW so that ~60 kWh equipped BEVs can charge to 80% in ~20 minutes.

The first high power stations in California are already under construction in Baker, between Barstow and Vegas. In EVgo's 3Q-2017 report to the State regarding the status of their settlement buildout, they described this site as "intended to bring auto OEMs, EVSE, and cable manufacturers together to demonstrate and facilitate testing and development of standards and equipment" for "Extreme High Power DC Charging".

CPUC/NRG Settlement Report, Year 5, Q3

EVgo has claimed in the past that most of their sites have additional utility capacity to add at least one 150kW charger.