Dc charging questions

[JJ2Styles]

Hi everyone, I just wondering if is true that DC charging kills your battery very fast .. The reason is because I have free DC lv3 charging station at work and 1 mile from my house

 

[johnnylingo]

The official response from VW is that DC fast charging should be used "sparingly". However, they don't provide specifics beyond that.

http://www.torquenews.com/1/why-vw-...battery-sparingly-when-it-comes-fast-charging

 

[JJ2Styles]

So does that mean yes ? Do you think will be problem with the battery guarantee ? Because to be honest I am little afraid of it .. But at the same time not taking advantage of the fast charging option and the free dc charging kind of odd for me so what we suppose to change with to keep the battery life 120v?

Thanks so much in advance

 

[JoulesThief]

So does that mean yes ? Do you think will be problem with the battery guarantee ? Because to be honest I am little afraid of it .. But at the same time not taking advantage of the fast charging option and the free dc charging kind of odd for me so what we suppose to change with to keep the battery life 120v?

Thanks so much in advance

It means sparingly. Like maybe at most 5% of the time, over the time that you own it, whether it's free or not.


You should strive to charge at level 2 rates, 240V 30 to 32 Amps, and 7.2kwh per hour or lower charge rates, over night, at home, or publicly, at almost all times, about a 2 to 4 hour time frame, to keep your battery and VW happy.




There is no such thing as free electricity, unless you own the solar panels producing it. Otherwise, someone is paying for it.

Yes DC charging fast and level 3 kills VW e-Golf batteries fast. Yes, it will void your warranty and VW will hang you out to dry for a $17000 R&R for a new battery, on your account.

In 3 words... Don't do it.

Or buy a Kia or a Nissan Leaf instead.

 

[miimura]

That's a pretty extreme opinion expressed just above. You can follow VW's guidelines in the manuals by not doing back to back fast charges. In other words, Fast Charge, then AC charge, then Fast Charge as needed. The main thing is that VW elected to eliminate the liquid cooling system that they had originally engineered for the car. There were prototypes that had it, but they decided that the savings in cost, complexity, reliability, and weight from eliminating it were justified. The problem is that if you drive a long trip with back to back to back fast charges the battery will steadily rise in temperature. A fellow in Europe did this and eventually, his fast charging was slowed down to the point that it was the same kW as AC charging. The e-Golf just can't shed the heat from that kind of usage unless the ambient temperature is very low.

Personally, I would limit 50kW fast charging to once per day or 25kW fast charging to twice per day.

 

[johnnylingo]

Or buy a Kia or a Nissan Leaf instead.

Ummm why would the Soul or Leaf be different than the e-Golf? The DC fast charger interfaces are different (CHAdeMO vs. SAE Combo/CCS) but I don't see why that would affect battery wear n' tear.

 

[JoulesThief]

Or buy a Kia or a Nissan Leaf instead.

Ummm why would the Soul or Leaf be different than the e-Golf? The DC fast charger interfaces are different (CHAdeMO vs. SAE Combo/CCS) but I don't see why that would affect battery wear n' tear.

Warranty repair on a Leaf is about $5500 for a lithium replacement battery pack. About $17000 to R&R a lithium battery pack currently in a e-Golf. Source: Neftin VW, Thousand Oaks, CA, that did a warranty repair on a customers battery pack on a car with 8000 miles on it.

If you've had any personal experience getting VW to cover something on a VW TDI under warranty, you'd understand where I am coming from.

If that difference in price doesn't make you swallow twice, you must be leasing, not an owner of your e-Leaf.

 

[JoulesThief]

That's a pretty extreme opinion expressed just above. You can follow VW's guidelines in the manuals by not doing back to back fast charges. In other words, Fast Charge, then AC charge, then Fast Charge as needed. The main thing is that VW elected to eliminate the liquid cooling system that they had originally engineered for the car. There were prototypes that had it, but they decided that the savings in cost, complexity, reliability, and weight from eliminating it were justified. The problem is that if you drive a long trip with back to back to back fast charges the battery will steadily rise in temperature. A fellow in Europe did this and eventually, his fast charging was slowed down to the point that it was the same kW as AC charging. The e-Golf just can't shed the heat from that kind of usage unless the ambient temperature is very low.

Personally, I would limit 50kW fast charging to once per day or 25kW fast charging to twice per day.

What is your definition of sparingly, vs VW's? Just wondering, are you warrantying e-Golf batteries, or is VW? You can bet VW is logging every recharge on your e-Golf. Car-net knows everywhere you go, how fast you are going, when you stop to recharge, etc, etc, etc.

I own my e-Golf... outright. Not a lease, not turning it back in in 3 years, in it for the long haul. I've no intention of giving VW any reason to deny me warranty coverage, period. Been there, done that with a HPFP failure on a Common Rail TDI, and a DEF heater and pump failure... VW is slippery on warranty coverage, very, very slippery.

 

[SfEvR]

That's a pretty extreme opinion expressed just above. You can follow VW's guidelines in the manuals by not doing back to back fast charges. In other words, Fast Charge, then AC charge, then Fast Charge as needed. The main thing is that VW elected to eliminate the liquid cooling system that they had originally engineered for the car. There were prototypes that had it, but they decided that the savings in cost, complexity, reliability, and weight from eliminating it were justified. The problem is that if you drive a long trip with back to back to back fast charges the battery will steadily rise in temperature. A fellow in Europe did this and eventually, his fast charging was slowed down to the point that it was the same kW as AC charging. The e-Golf just can't shed the heat from that kind of usage unless the ambient temperature is very low.

Personally, I would limit 50kW fast charging to once per day or 25kW fast charging to twice per day.

What is your definition of sparingly, vs VW's? Just wondering, are you warrantying e-Golf batteries, or is VW? You can bet VW is logging every recharge on your e-Golf. Car-net knows everywhere you go, how fast you are going, when you stop to recharge, etc, etc, etc.

I own my e-Golf... outright. Not a lease, not turning it back in in 3 years, in it for the long haul. I've no intention of giving VW any reason to deny me warranty coverage, period. Been there, done that with a HPFP failure on a Common Rail TDI, and a DEF heater and pump failure... VW is slippery on warranty coverage, very, very slippery.

What do you mean, "what is [his] definition of sparingly?" He said right in his post he'd limit 50kW to once per day and 25kW to twice per day. You may disagree with his assessment, but he told you right there what he'd limit it to. What would you limit it to? Is there somewhere in the manual or materials where you see something that says once a day is too much. I also own my eGolf. I rarely fast charge, so it's not an issue for me at this point, but I was definitely not under the impression that fast charging once a day could void the warranty. I haven't seen anything to that effect. I've seen people argue that back to back fast charging may.

 

[JoulesThief]

That's a pretty extreme opinion expressed just above. You can follow VW's guidelines in the manuals by not doing back to back fast charges. In other words, Fast Charge, then AC charge, then Fast Charge as needed. The main thing is that VW elected to eliminate the liquid cooling system that they had originally engineered for the car. There were prototypes that had it, but they decided that the savings in cost, complexity, reliability, and weight from eliminating it were justified. The problem is that if you drive a long trip with back to back to back fast charges the battery will steadily rise in temperature. A fellow in Europe did this and eventually, his fast charging was slowed down to the point that it was the same kW as AC charging. The e-Golf just can't shed the heat from that kind of usage unless the ambient temperature is very low.

Personally, I would limit 50kW fast charging to once per day or 25kW fast charging to twice per day.

What is your definition of sparingly, vs VW's? Just wondering, are you warrantying e-Golf batteries, or is VW? You can bet VW is logging every recharge on your e-Golf. Car-net knows everywhere you go, how fast you are going, when you stop to recharge, etc, etc, etc.

I own my e-Golf... outright. Not a lease, not turning it back in in 3 years, in it for the long haul. I've no intention of giving VW any reason to deny me warranty coverage, period. Been there, done that with a HPFP failure on a Common Rail TDI, and a DEF heater and pump failure... VW is slippery on warranty coverage, very, very slippery.

What do you mean, "what is [his] definition of sparingly?" He said right in his post he'd limit 50kW to once per day and 25kW to twice per day. You may disagree with his assessment, but he told you right there what he'd limit it to. What would you limit it to? Is there somewhere in the manual or materials where you see something that says once a day is too much. I also own my eGolf. I rarely fast charge, so it's not an issue for me at this point, but I was definitely not under the impression that fast charging once a day could void the warranty. I haven't seen anything to that effect. I've seen people argue that back to back fast charging may.

My definition of sparingly is 5% or less. Like 1 in 20 recharges. Not 50% of the time, as Imura alludes to. Yes, I own my e-Golf. Yes, I've seen VW weasel out of warranty coverage numerous times. Diesel HPFP's that are 7 to $8000 a pop, and VW blamed it on the consumer, saying the fuel was "contaminated". Contaminated with what? Metal particles from the HPFP eating itself alive, due to defective design, or not designed to run on US 520 micron wear scar diesel fuel, which is what US Spec diesel fuel is, but Bosch states it really needs 460 micron or smaller wear scar fuel, while reference diesel fuel in Germany is under 300 micron wear scar, and 7% biodiesel, due to government subsidy of rapeseed farmers?

VW is logging your recharges, the speed, the battery temps, all that. Imura has leased his e-Golf. He's holding out for a Tesla, his e-Golf is disposable to him. As a result, he's gone no skin in the game as to the long term health of that very expensive battery pack in his leased e-Golf, it won't bite him in the wallet when it's life is shortened, after his lease is up.

 

[user 577]

You should strive to charge at level 2 rates, 240V 30 to 32 Amps, and 7.2kwh per hour or lower charge rates, over night, at home, or publicly, at almost all times, about a 2 to 4 hour time frame, to keep your battery and VW happy.

This is an interesting quote. Heat tends to be the main killer of batteries, whether charging or discharging. If you charge for a 2-4 hours time frame, why is that better than an 8 hour time frame? The heat produced in the 2-4 hour time frame will be much higher than the heat produced in the 8 hour time frame. (as in max temperature).

As was mentioned, without liquid cooling, fast DC charging produces a tremendous amount of heat. 30 amps produces less heat. 10 amps even less.

What's the background on your statement above? Feel free to get technical.

Brian

 

[miimura]

What is your definition of sparingly, vs VW's? Just wondering, are you warrantying e-Golf batteries, or is VW? You can bet VW is logging every recharge on your e-Golf. Car-net knows everywhere you go, how fast you are going, when you stop to recharge, etc, etc, etc.

I own my e-Golf... outright. Not a lease, not turning it back in in 3 years, in it for the long haul. I've no intention of giving VW any reason to deny me warranty coverage, period. Been there, done that with a HPFP failure on a Common Rail TDI, and a DEF heater and pump failure... VW is slippery on warranty coverage, very, very slippery.

What do you mean, "what is [his] definition of sparingly?" He said right in his post he'd limit 50kW to once per day and 25kW to twice per day. You may disagree with his assessment, but he told you right there what he'd limit it to. What would you limit it to? Is there somewhere in the manual or materials where you see something that says once a day is too much. I also own my eGolf. I rarely fast charge, so it's not an issue for me at this point, but I was definitely not under the impression that fast charging once a day could void the warranty. I haven't seen anything to that effect. I've seen people argue that back to back fast charging may.

My definition of sparingly is 5% or less. Like 1 in 20 recharges. Not 50% of the time, as Imura alludes to. Yes, I own my e-Golf. Yes, I've seen VW weasel out of warranty coverage numerous times. Diesel HPFP's that are 7 to $8000 a pop, and VW blamed it on the consumer, saying the fuel was "contaminated". Contaminated with what? Metal particles from the HPFP eating itself alive, due to defective design, or not designed to run on US 520 micron wear scar diesel fuel, which is what US Spec diesel fuel is, but Bosch states it really needs 460 micron or smaller wear scar fuel, while reference diesel fuel in Germany is under 300 micron wear scar, and 7% biodiesel, due to government subsidy of rapeseed farmers?

VW is logging your recharges, the speed, the battery temps, all that. Imura has leased his e-Golf. He's holding out for a Tesla, his e-Golf is disposable to him. As a result, he's gone no skin in the game as to the long term health of that very expensive battery pack in his leased e-Golf, it won't bite him in the wallet when it's life is shortened, after his lease is up.

I never said or even alluded to 50% fast charging. I don't recommend any electric car to someone who does not have reliable charging available at home or work. While it may be tolerable for someone with no dedicated charging to pay the monthly fee to NRG and just do fast charging 2 to 3 times per week, it's not a good way to live with an EV, grubbing for electrons like that. This is totally independent from the subject of battery longevity.

My intention, which evidently was not communicated clearly, was to say that the occasional weekend trip, maybe once or twice a month at most, that requires one fast charge each way would be OK. If you drive an e-Golf and have to fast charge each way to make it to and from work, you've chosen the wrong car. In all this, I'm trying to imagine people that have different needs and driving patterns than my family. The e-Golf is truly our "city car" and we don't plan to take it beyond its single charge range. I've only fast charged it once, just to try it out and see how it performed. I really don't need the fast charge port on the e-Golf. However, I firmly believe that every EV should have fast charging so that you don't get stranded somewhere for multiple hours of charging to get home when something unexpected comes up. The RAV4 EV will be our road trip car if and when we need it. I am getting the aftermarket CHAdeMO installed by QuickChargePower. Having 40+kWh of battery makes for a much better road trip with fast charging. I own that car, I'm not leasing it, and plan to keep it at least through the 8 year 100,000 mile extended warranty. So, you can see that I'm not opposed to taking some warranty risk with the battery by using it in a way not endorsed by the manufacturer. Although, I have more confidence in the traction battery because it has Tesla's BMS and liquid cooling system.

 

[JoulesThief]

My intention, which evidently was not communicated clearly, was to say that the occasional weekend trip, maybe once or twice a month at most, that requires one fast charge each way would be OK. If you drive an e-Golf and have to fast charge each way to make it to and from work, you've chosen the wrong car. In all this, I'm trying to imagine people that have different needs and driving patterns than my family. The e-Golf is truly our "city car" and we don't plan to take it beyond its single charge range. I've only fast charged it once, just to try it out and see how it performed. I really don't need the fast charge port on the e-Golf. However, I firmly believe that every EV should have fast charging so that you don't get stranded somewhere for multiple hours of charging to get home when something unexpected comes up. The RAV4 EV will be our road trip car if and when we need it. I am getting the aftermarket CHAdeMO installed by QuickChargePower. Having 40+kWh of battery makes for a much better road trip with fast charging. I own that car, I'm not leasing it, and plan to keep it at least through the 8 year 100,000 mile extended warranty. So, you can see that I'm not opposed to taking some warranty risk with the battery by using it in a way not endorsed by the manufacturer. Although, I have more confidence in the traction battery because it has Tesla's BMS and liquid cooling system.

What is your level of confidence in VW's first go round with a BEV and going with no cooling system for the battery pack, and why? Is it a half baked idea? Are VW's accountants and lawyers gambling on not having many warranty replacement claims, due to heat and loss of capacity? 100,000 miles and 8 years is a pretty bold statement, to secure sales, I presume.

 

[miimura]

My intention, which evidently was not communicated clearly, was to say that the occasional weekend trip, maybe once or twice a month at most, that requires one fast charge each way would be OK. If you drive an e-Golf and have to fast charge each way to make it to and from work, you've chosen the wrong car. In all this, I'm trying to imagine people that have different needs and driving patterns than my family. The e-Golf is truly our "city car" and we don't plan to take it beyond its single charge range. I've only fast charged it once, just to try it out and see how it performed. I really don't need the fast charge port on the e-Golf. However, I firmly believe that every EV should have fast charging so that you don't get stranded somewhere for multiple hours of charging to get home when something unexpected comes up. The RAV4 EV will be our road trip car if and when we need it. I am getting the aftermarket CHAdeMO installed by QuickChargePower. Having 40+kWh of battery makes for a much better road trip with fast charging. I own that car, I'm not leasing it, and plan to keep it at least through the 8 year 100,000 mile extended warranty. So, you can see that I'm not opposed to taking some warranty risk with the battery by using it in a way not endorsed by the manufacturer. Although, I have more confidence in the traction battery because it has Tesla's BMS and liquid cooling system.

What is your level of confidence in VW's first go round with a BEV and going with no cooling system for the battery pack, and why? Is it a half baked idea? Are VW's accountants and lawyers gambling on not having many warranty replacement claims, due to heat and loss of capacity? 100,000 miles and 8 years is a pretty bold statement, to secure sales, I presume.

I don't think they will have significant warranty claims on the battery pack due to lost capacity. The Panasonic cells they're using are good and don't generate as much heat internally as some others, like the Leaf. The car does reduce your ability to charge and discharge as they heat up in order to prevent damage. My main problem with VW is that they warn you not to do sequential DCFC when in reality, they should warn you that sequential DCFC can slow down dramatically due to the car protecting itself. A liquid cooled battery can remove the heat accumulation from charging while driving, so it would not have to slow down nearly as much, if at all. When a Tesla Model S is Supercharging, you can really hear the A/C going and if it's hot enough outside, it will steal all the cooling for the battery and tell you that cabin cooling is reduced or not available. In the end, VW made a trade-off that they thought would benefit the most people. Maybe it won't be suitable for use in Arizona like the early Leaf cars, but only time will tell.

The 8/100k traction battery defect warranty is not a bold statement by VW. I'm pretty sure it's required in order for them to get CARB ZEV credits for the car. However, the capacity guarantee is not required, and that is the best of any manufacturer as far as I know. IIRC, the new Leaf capacity guarantee on the 2016 30kWh battery matches the 8/100k term, but I think their "4th bar gone" level is only about 60%. The 24kWh Leaf batteries only have a 5/60k "4th bar gone" warranty. It is also unclear how the e-Golf capacity loss would be indicated to the owner since there is no "health meter" like the Leaf. I think you would have to do your own math from the "Since Charge" data to see how many kWh you get out relative to the indicated 100%.

 

[JoulesThief]

My intention, which evidently was not communicated clearly, was to say that the occasional weekend trip, maybe once or twice a month at most, that requires one fast charge each way would be OK. If you drive an e-Golf and have to fast charge each way to make it to and from work, you've chosen the wrong car. In all this, I'm trying to imagine people that have different needs and driving patterns than my family. The e-Golf is truly our "city car" and we don't plan to take it beyond its single charge range. I've only fast charged it once, just to try it out and see how it performed. I really don't need the fast charge port on the e-Golf. However, I firmly believe that every EV should have fast charging so that you don't get stranded somewhere for multiple hours of charging to get home when something unexpected comes up. The RAV4 EV will be our road trip car if and when we need it. I am getting the aftermarket CHAdeMO installed by QuickChargePower. Having 40+kWh of battery makes for a much better road trip with fast charging. I own that car, I'm not leasing it, and plan to keep it at least through the 8 year 100,000 mile extended warranty. So, you can see that I'm not opposed to taking some warranty risk with the battery by using it in a way not endorsed by the manufacturer. Although, I have more confidence in the traction battery because it has Tesla's BMS and liquid cooling system.

What is your level of confidence in VW's first go round with a BEV and going with no cooling system for the battery pack, and why? Is it a half baked idea? Are VW's accountants and lawyers gambling on not having many warranty replacement claims, due to heat and loss of capacity? 100,000 miles and 8 years is a pretty bold statement, to secure sales, I presume.

I don't think they will have significant warranty claims on the battery pack due to lost capacity. The Panasonic cells they're using are good and don't generate as much heat internally as some others, like the Leaf. The car does reduce your ability to charge and discharge as they heat up in order to prevent damage. My main problem with VW is that they warn you not to do sequential DCFC when in reality, they should warn you that sequential DCFC can slow down dramatically due to the car protecting itself. A liquid cooled battery can remove the heat accumulation from charging while driving, so it would not have to slow down nearly as much, if at all. When a Tesla Model S is Supercharging, you can really hear the A/C going and if it's hot enough outside, it will steal all the cooling for the battery and tell you that cabin cooling is reduced or not available. In the end, VW made a trade-off that they thought would benefit the most people. Maybe it won't be suitable for use in Arizona like the early Leaf cars, but only time will tell.

The 8/100k traction battery defect warranty is not a bold statement by VW. I'm pretty sure it's required in order for them to get CARB ZEV credits for the car. However, the capacity guarantee is not required, and that is the best of any manufacturer as far as I know. IIRC, the new Leaf capacity guarantee on the 2016 30kWh battery matches the 8/100k term, but I think their "4th bar gone" level is only about 60%. The 24kWh Leaf batteries only have a 5/60k "4th bar gone" warranty. It is also unclear how the e-Golf capacity loss would be indicated to the owner since there is no "health meter" like the Leaf. I think you would have to do your own math from the "Since Charge" data to see how many kWh you get out relative to the indicated 100%.

VW wants you to bring your e-Golf in for service every 10k miles, so they can charge you $200 per shot at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60k etc to tell you the capacity left in your battery. I don't need to know the condition of my battery until either 8 years have passed, or I am near 100k and loss of capacity is greater than what I can measure as 70%, which I assume to mean 70% of 129-130 miles range I usually get driving around Los Angeles here at 5.5 -6 miles per kw x 22 kw new storage capacity. That's about 17 kw or less battery storage capacity before battery warranty becomes an issue, in 100k miles, or 8 years, which ever comes first. Maybe by then, VW will have 30 kw capacity replacement batteries in the same size and volume. One can wish.

 

[mfennell]

You should strive to charge at level 2 rates, 240V 30 to 32 Amps, and 7.2kwh per hour or lower charge rates, over night, at home, or publicly, at almost all times, about a 2 to 4 hour time frame, to keep your battery and VW happy.

This is an interesting quote. Heat tends to be the main killer of batteries, whether charging or discharging. If you charge for a 2-4 hours time frame, why is that better than an 8 hour time frame? The heat produced in the 2-4 hour time frame will be much higher than the heat produced in the 8 hour time frame. (as in max temperature).

From a heat perspective, I doubt there's much difference between the two. FWIW, battery university says typical charge rates for nickel-manganese-cobalt cells like in the e-golf is 0.7-1C. 7.2 kw is ~0.3C. That is a pretty low charge rate.

IMHO, best overnight practice is a delay charge to departure time at 7.2kw with a 50% min charge setting. Faster charging gives a marginal benefit because the pack spends less time at higher states of charge though how much is anyone's guess. Personally, I delay charge with the itty-bitty standard EVSE to 90% or less because I've been too lazy to get anything better. I also only charge if I'm driving it that day so my car spends a lot of time at 40-60%. If I don't buy it, some future stranger will be very pleased.

 

[SJCyclist]

My egolf is at the dealer now because it is not communicating with fast chargers. No other errors or any information is being communicated to me. Just that it will not communicate to fast chargers which I've used in the past.

I've only used thr fast chargers for occasional long weekend drives. According to the owners manual there is no other metric to go by. I charge on level 2 or level 1 (which I had to do one time) the rest of the time. I am.wondering if the car is doing this to limit me. I would not have bought the car had I known it would do this...my

 

[RonDawg]

Or buy a Kia or a Nissan Leaf instead.

Ummm why would the Soul or Leaf be different than the e-Golf? The DC fast charger interfaces are different (CHAdeMO vs. SAE Combo/CCS) but I don't see why that would affect battery wear n' tear.

As Joules mentioned, a replacement Leaf battery pack can be had for $5500 + core exchange. It is widely believed to be a price subsidized heavily by Nissan and the true cost is likely much higher.

The Kia Soul EV has active air cooling for the battery, via a fan that resides beneath the trunk false floor.

 

[tbier]

Digging up an old post here, wondering if anyone has learned more about official VW recommendations or experience one way or the other from fast charging.

After paying $995 for the option, I'd like to use it more than once a month without feeling like I'm going to melt my battery.

 

[f1geek]

In the 2015 e-Golf manual, it says not to DC Fast charge frequently and consecutively. The word "sparingly" is not used. I have talked to VW Customer Care on the phone and have not been given a definitive, quantitative answer for what constitutes "frequently" other than the VW rep agreeing with me that one person's definition of frequent is different than another person's definition of frequent. I do not feel that once a month is frequent, nor do I think once a week is frequent. But that's just my opinion - your opinion may be different. I believe I have seen some mild battery degradation of about 10% capacity loss over almost three years and about 25,000 miles, but I can't correlate it to the amount of times I've DC Fast charged the car. Also, if the battery gets too hot, the rate of charging will be reduced by the car's software, so you can't melt the battery.

Based on the warnings in the VW e-Golf manual, prolonged time at very low SOC at any temperature is bad for the battery, as is high temperatures at a very high SOC for prolonged periods, as is a prolonged exposure at any SOC at temperatures at or above 118 F.

At least VW offers a battery capacity warranty - some other manufacturers don't offer one. Of course, if your car has a really big battery, then losing 40% SOC isn't as bad for usable range as compared to when you begin with an 83 mile range with a new battery.

If VW did a good job testing the battery, then it will last for 8 years with at least 70% of its original capacity, in the worst case scenario which would include what VW considers frequent and consecutive DC Fast charging.