Considering a 2016 SE CPO

[MNRunner]

New to this forum, however I enjoy quite a few others. I browsed around here for the last few days trying to gather facts and opinions as I descend into the EV world. I currently drive a 2017 4Runner and love it, let me just say I will not be getting rid of it. Over the last year my job has required me to work all over the Twin Cities (Minnesota). I enjoy the time I get in my 4runner and know the miles will not affect the value too much. Obviously the MPG is terrible, which is what has brought me to this situation. I love the idea of an EV for the environmental part as well as the cost savings. That being said I am not a fan of the Prius, hate the look of the Leaf (love the MPGe specs of the 2016 SV) and just can't think of owning a Kia. I test drove a 2016 SE CPO with 13,000 miles. I loved it right away and almost impulsively pulled the trigger on the spot.

Sorry for rambling, so here are my concerns: 3.6 Kwh charger on the SE, Currently I drive roughly 280-350 miles per week. Typically the longest trip in one day would be just about 80 miles RT primarily highway with some stop and go rush hour traffic. Average would be closer to 40 RT in a day with a 60% highway usage. It would also probably become the soccer practice transporter and grocery hauler which is all within my suburb (8 miles RT). I would install a level 2 charger at home but there are very few places I could stop when not at home. On my 80 mile RT day(s) there is a level 2 system at the half way point (40 miles) that I could stop at for lunch but I can't see how 1 hour at 3.6kwh would help me. Does this seem practical for the golf?

Second; Longevity, I live in MN and own a 4Runner so I would imagine that the second we had measurable snow it would sit in the heated garage which could be roughly December-March. I understand letting the battery sit that long is not the best so my intent would be take it out now and then if the roads are cleared. I have a 14 year old and would love to give him this for a car in 2021 when he can drive and start learning to drive on next year. School is 4 miles RT and I would imagine he would have a local PT job and still play soccer all within the city limits. Is it practical to think the golf battery will suffice to even get him out of high school? Better yet college? (He would graduate high school 2023). Guessing that with the miles I would drive it, the car would have 32,000 miles on it by the time he has his license.

Pricing; so again, 2016 SE CPO with 13,000 miles. They are asking $13,950 and say they won't budge anymore. Looks like in service date was 10/2015 in California, puts the battery warranty out to 10/2023. Between the $50 a week in gas I pay now and the .56 cents per mile my company pays me for my travels I feel like the golf will pay for itself. Online seems variable for pricing by region but is this a decent price? I know that is subjective but maybe I a missing something.

Thanks for any insight. If I didn't love my 4runner I would just go with a Tesla but I can't afford that many nice things at one time :lol: .

 

[f1geek]

Good for you for considering an EV. Considering you live in a very cold place, you will lose a lot of range in the winter. Making that 80 mile RT drive will be very difficult. I think you should not consider an EV that you can't DC fast charge and you should be able to at least charge at 6 kW. (kWh is energy content, kW is charge rate). The SEL e-Golf will charge up to 7.2 kW. Trying to pick up 40 miles of range over lunch is only possible with DC Fast charging, so again, you need DCFC. Can you find a 2016 SE with the quick charge package? Then you'll be able to draw up to 30 amps (240x30=7200 watts or 7.2 kW) maximum. Best of luck.

 

[Verbruggan]

Good for you for considering an EV. Considering you live in a very cold place, you will lose a lot of range in the winter. Making that 80 mile RT drive will be very difficult. I think you should not consider an EV that you can't DC fast charge and you should be able to at least charge at 6 kW. (kWh is energy content, kW is charge rate). The SEL e-Golf will charge up to 7.2 kW. Trying to pick up 40 miles of range over lunch is only possible with DC Fast charging, so again, you need DCFC. Can you find a 2016 SE with the quick charge package? Then you'll be able to draw up to 30 amps (240x30=7200 watts or 7.2 kW) maximum. Best of luck.

Agreed, you will lose mileage attempting to stay warm while you drive. Where you are, you can't go without heat. I pulled up the Twin Cities on PlugShare & selected only J-1772 (Level 2) & CCS/SAE (DCFC). My map brought up 150+ stations. Decent DC charge layout with Goodwill locations. You could pop some tags with the $20 in your pocket that you saved not driving your ICE... Even with filtering out anything with a Plugshare rating of 8 or greater, I still got 130+ stations. With over a dozen DCFC locations strategically laid out.

Do not know your Home Base Location, consider though. Are you in & around the TC or are you traveling from the outskirts? If you are in & around, I see no problem. Plus if you are parked while at work, can you plug in? My boss lets me. My wife's job has a Level 2 at her work, although it is 2 miles from my house (we have a 7.2KW at home). Forward thinking only comes after you learn a cars limitations... Good luck.

 

[2016golfse]

I wouldn't even consider any EV in that environment and a routine 80 mile round trip that didn't have at least 150 mi range.

1) You're using heat.
2) You're range will drop 25% alone in sub-freezing temps, even without using heat.
3) You're range will drop as the battery ages.
4) You shouldn't rely soley on the availability and proper operation of a public charging station.

 

[johnnylingo]

Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.

 

[MNRunner]

Thank you all for the information. I guess I need to clarify a few things that I did not make clear.

The 80 mile RT happens no more than 4 times a month, sometimes its only 1 or 2 times per month.

Here is a typical week

Monday- 36 miles RT for work 4-8miles RT for errands and kids
Tuesday- 50 miles Rt for work 4-8 miles RT for kids
Wednesday 36 miles RT
Thursday 50 miles RT
Friday- 35 miles Rt
Saturday- 10-15 miles for kids and activities
Sunday- 10-15 miles

This is baseline. My kids soccer games may take me out to other parts of town but no more than an additional 20 miles RT and usually only 1 time per week.

As far as cold. I mentioned my 4Runner. The Golf would become the practice and grocery getter for the winter/cold months. Probably would not see more than 200 miles a month from December-March.

Does this change things? I am understanding EV's are similar to many other electronics and there is always something new and "cool" coming out.

I would love a 2017 SEL but as a 3rd vehicle the pricing doesn't make sense.

 

[JoulesThief]

Wait another year for 2017's to come off of lease. Then you'll have sufficient range.

 

[mpulsiv]

Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.

Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.

 

[JoulesThief]

Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.

Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.

Honestly, forget the heater.... heating air is a HUUUUGE waste of your batteries energy. Dress appropriately for the weather, do the same for inside of your e-Golf, and use the seat heaters for heat, not the heater vents. wear enough layers of clothing and gloves to stay warm. The energy stored is close to about maybe 3-4 gallons of gas in that battery, and it takes a hell of a lot longer to refill, too, than a fuel tank . It's a REALLY bad idea to run the battery charge gauge down into the red zone. RED zone means "STOP what you are doing and fix the problem, in this case, recharge. Always good to leave at least 1/4 tank charge in your battery, 2 notches above the red zone. Your battery and it's longevity and life will thank you for it later in life.

 

[Verbruggan]

Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.

Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.

Honestly, forget the heater.... heating air is a HUUUUGE waste of your batteries energy. Dress appropriately for the weather, do the same for inside of your e-Golf, and use the seat heaters for heat, not the heater vents. wear enough layers of clothing and gloves to stay warm. The energy stored is close to about maybe 3-4 gallons of gas in that battery, and it takes a hell of a lot longer to refill, too, than a fuel tank . It's a REALLY bad idea to run the battery charge gauge down into the red zone. RED zone means "STOP what you are doing and fix the problem, in this case, recharge. Always good to leave at least 1/4 tank charge in your battery, 2 notches above the red zone. Your battery and it's longevity and life will thank you for it later in life.

Says the guy in Southern California... When the temperature is (for a high) -11°F and the low for the night is -40°F you WILL use your heat AND dress appropriately regardless. It is a car, not a freezer.

 

[mpulsiv]

Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.

Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.

Honestly, forget the heater.... heating air is a HUUUUGE waste of your batteries energy. Dress appropriately for the weather, do the same for inside of your e-Golf, and use the seat heaters for heat, not the heater vents. wear enough layers of clothing and gloves to stay warm. The energy stored is close to about maybe 3-4 gallons of gas in that battery, and it takes a hell of a lot longer to refill, too, than a fuel tank . It's a REALLY bad idea to run the battery charge gauge down into the red zone. RED zone means "STOP what you are doing and fix the problem, in this case, recharge. Always good to leave at least 1/4 tank charge in your battery, 2 notches above the red zone. Your battery and it's longevity and life will thank you for it later in life.

Understood, but I could care less about waste of battery energy. I don't drive more than 20 miles per day. On weekends, I may do 50 miles per day.

 

[f1geek]

One gallon of gas contains about 34 kWh of energy, so even the 2017 e-Golf doesn't have a gallon's worth of usable energy. Still, heat pumps are very efficient at heating and will use a lot less energy than the resistive heater element in the SE. BTW, the seat heat is also generated by a resistive heater, but a very low powered one compared to the cabin air heater. I believe the combo of cold temps and heating the interior can lose you as much as 40% to 50% of the range you would get on a warm day requiring no heating or cooling.

 

[mpulsiv]

One gallon of gas contains about 34 kWh of energy, so even the 2017 e-Golf doesn't have a gallon's worth of usable energy. Still, heat pumps are very efficient at heating and will use a lot less energy than the resistive heater element in the SE. BTW, the seat heat is also generated by a resistive heater, but a very low powered one compared to the cabin air heater. I believe the combo of cold temps and heating the interior can lose you as much as 40% to 50% of the range you would get on a warm day requiring no heating or cooling.

That's good to know. 40% is signifact and on a cold day, range could drop down 60 miles, right? In ~7 years with degradation of passive cooling battery, owners will have a hard time selling e-Golf with such a poor range. Needless to say, 2016 SE's with smaller battery will be worthless

 

[JoulesThief]

One gallon of gas contains about 34 kWh of energy, so even the 2017 e-Golf doesn't have a gallon's worth of usable energy. Still, heat pumps are very efficient at heating and will use a lot less energy than the resistive heater element in the SE. BTW, the seat heat is also generated by a resistive heater, but a very low powered one compared to the cabin air heater. I believe the combo of cold temps and heating the interior can lose you as much as 40% to 50% of the range you would get on a warm day requiring no heating or cooling.

That's good to know. 40% is signifact and on a cold day, range could drop down 60 miles, right? In ~7 years with degradation of passive cooling battery, owners will have a hard time selling e-Golf with such a poor range. Needless to say, 2016 SE's with smaller battery will be worthless

You don't even own an e-Golf yet, and you declare them worthless? LMFAO!

Suggest you take your impulsive habits elsewhere and look for something else.

f1geek misses the reference I made to a gallon of gas, The battery is worth about what you can get mileage wise in a gas powered golf on 3 or 4 gallons of fuel, in the tank, range wise, so that you have a useful comparison of driving range on a gallon of gas, to compare to. Somewhere between 27 and 35 to 40 mpg per gallon in the tank, depending on your warmup and driving techniques.

f1geek tends to twist statistics around here, perhaps he's autistic, he does have a tendency to think on some other obtuse plane of thought.

 

[msvphoto]

One gallon of gas contains about 34 kWh of energy, so even the 2017 e-Golf doesn't have a gallon's worth of usable energy. Still, heat pumps are very efficient at heating and will use a lot less energy than the resistive heater element in the SE. BTW, the seat heat is also generated by a resistive heater, but a very low powered one compared to the cabin air heater. I believe the combo of cold temps and heating the interior can lose you as much as 40% to 50% of the range you would get on a warm day requiring no heating or cooling.

That's good to know. 40% is signifact and on a cold day, range could drop down 60 miles, right? In ~7 years with degradation of passive cooling battery, owners will have a hard time selling e-Golf with such a poor range. Needless to say, 2016 SE's with smaller battery will be worthless

Maybe. We're at 46k miles and still see 90-100 miles on the GOM at full charge. Who knows what the range will be in 7 years. As long as it is >60 miles and the car still drives well it won't be "worthless" to us. Resale may be another thing, but what $10-15k 3-4 year old used car won't be "worthless" in 7 years from now regardless of propulsion? So far, unless the car is in the desert, e-Golf batteries seem to be holding up well, maybe better than expected based on early Leafs with passive battery technology.

My ICE daily is someone else's "worthless" BMW wagon that cost them ~$65k back in 2000. I picked it up, as the second owner, for less than they paid in sales tax. It is still a great car and not "worthless" to me though it doesn't have much financial value despite being a rather rare and unique car.

If the range works for you and you have some other car as a range extender a used e-Golf is quite a bargain. Prices have dropped significantly since the $35k Tesla teaser price was announced and they weren't too expensive before. Late this year there probably will be bargains to be had on 2017s as they start to come off lease if range is really an issue.

 

[Sparklebeard]

That's good to know. 40% is signifact and on a cold day, range could drop down 60 miles, right? In ~7 years with degradation of passive cooling battery, owners will have a hard time selling e-Golf with such a poor range. Needless to say, 2016 SE's with smaller battery will be worthless

By then I suspect we will start seeing more options for refurbishing battery packs. At absolute minimum an e-Golf is still a Mark 7 shell, maybe someone will retrofit an ICE drivetrain :lol:

 

[4hhsumm]

Hey MNRunner,

I also live in MN, and I have been driving a Toyota Highlander for a few years and absolutely love it. But I just bought a 2016 eGolf SE...this morning! I saw the CPO listings in the Twin Cities, but I just didn't really see the point. The one I bought does have some of the warranty left (was also priced at $13950), but my daily commute is only about 12-13 miles each way, with a free level 2 charger at my office. So I think I can get away with using this as the commuter for a few years.

And I would also love a Tesla, but a bit out of my price range at the moment! So just a few hours in, love the VW. Sporty, feels intuitive, reminds me of the Fahrvergnügen marketing campaign from back in the day.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[manybees]

So just a few hours in, love the VW. Sporty, feels intuitive, reminds me of the Fahrvergnügen marketing campaign from back in the day.

Welcome! Nearly everyone I've encountered who has driven an e-Golf talks about how fun it is to drive. Fahrvergnügen, indeed! Enjoy your new EV.

 

[MNRunner]

Hey MNRunner,

I also live in MN, and I have been driving a Toyota Highlander for a few years and absolutely love it. But I just bought a 2016 eGolf SE...this morning! I saw the CPO listings in the Twin Cities, but I just didn't really see the point. The one I bought does have some of the warranty left (was also priced at $13950), but my daily commute is only about 12-13 miles each way, with a free level 2 charger at my office. So I think I can get away with using this as the commuter for a few years.

And I would also love a Tesla, but a bit out of my price range at the moment! So just a few hours in, love the VW. Sporty, feels intuitive, reminds me of the Fahrvergnügen marketing campaign from back in the day.

Good luck with your decision!

Congrats! I think I know where you bought and I looked at one over there as well. I wish my work had a level 2 charger but sadly they do not. With only being able to charge at home I think I will be okay once I install a level 2. Do you intend on driving your Highlander in the winter?

I'll be sure to post back here if/when I get one.

 

[4hhsumm]

Hey MNRunner,

I also live in MN, and I have been driving a Toyota Highlander for a few years and absolutely love it. But I just bought a 2016 eGolf SE...this morning! I saw the CPO listings in the Twin Cities, but I just didn't really see the point. The one I bought does have some of the warranty left (was also priced at $13950), but my daily commute is only about 12-13 miles each way, with a free level 2 charger at my office. So I think I can get away with using this as the commuter for a few years.

And I would also love a Tesla, but a bit out of my price range at the moment! So just a few hours in, love the VW. Sporty, feels intuitive, reminds me of the Fahrvergnügen marketing campaign from back in the day.

Good luck with your decision!

Congrats! I think I know where you bought and I looked at one over there as well. I wish my work had a level 2 charger but sadly they do not. With only being able to charge at home I think I will be okay once I install a level 2. Do you intend on driving your Highlander in the winter?

I'll be sure to post back here if/when I get one.

We will see how it handles in the conditions. I may see how a set of snow tires handles, but part of why we're keeping the Highlander is of course in case it's needed in winter. That, and for longer road trips with the family!

I'm just now looking at installing an L2 at home, and there are a few options to consider since we are also considering installation of a solar array.