CCS DC fast-charging in an extra-cost option package

[jand8595]

Any info on when a DC fast charging upgrade will be available for the 2016 eGolf SE?

 

[bizzle]

People may know this already but my understanding is it'll be an option from the factory but not available as an upgrade after purchase.

 

[JoulesThief]

Any info on when a DC fast charging upgrade will be available for the 2016 eGolf SE?

All you can do is do a search on Cars.com for a 2016 e-Golf SE, and look for it priced just over $30,000, it's probably a $1500 or more option. One thing is for certain, if a 3.2kw charger on an e-Golf is anything like that on a 3.2kwh Nissan Leaf, they will be hard as the dickens to sell in the future, due to the slow charging rate, and the resale value will be depressed, it's far less desirable.

 

[johnnylingo]

my understanding is it'll be an option from the factory but not available as an upgrade after purchase.

This what I was told as well.

 

[bizzle]

That said, I've read about people modding those Leafs to have 7.6kwh chargers and I suspect it'll be the same for these over time.

Regardless, I'm not worried about resale value of my SE. I'm handing the keys back in three years.

 

[sirshan]

I reached out to VW of America to get a true answer on this.

Based on "A 3.6 kW onboard charger is standard, but a DC Fast Charging Package( $1,675, late availability) adds the 7.2 kW onboard charger with DC Fast Charging." this still sounds like its an add on that can be done after the fact.

Anyhow, I reached directly out to VW Director of Technology to see what answer we get.

One way or another, I do hope it is an upgrade that can be done after having purchased the car. I bought the car very spontaneously and didn't do full research and only found out about the benefits of the SEL VS SE after the fact. DC Fast Charing would have been a big one for me....the other things are minor to me as I can upgrade that myself (LED Headlights, Steering Wheel Controls, Leather, etc).

Ill update when I get an answer.

 

[bizzle]

It'll be interesting to hear the responses you get but I don't see how they can add that feature for $1600 bucks. That's going to be the cost of the materials alone so unless it's put in at the factory you're talking a substantial labor issue. Retrofitting the leafs entails dropping the entire battery package (essentially dropping the bottom of the car down), adding the modules, and adding in extra wiring.

Have you really experienced significant issues with your inability to use DC charging? Do you feel limited or is this one of those you feel limited based on what it could have done but you haven't really needed it yet? I sympathise with that perspective, I suffer from it in regards to some things too, but I'm trying to wean myself off the upgrade everything just because I can just because I might need it someday.

 

[miimura]

There is no way the Charging Package will be retro-fittable. Especially for that price. The parts price on the on-board charger alone will be more than the package price. The charging inlet and HVDC cable all the way back to the battery junction point will be another $650-$1,000.

I really hate that VW went this route to hit their price point on the SE. sirshan is clearly not the only one who didn't understand the limitations of the SE. They should stayed with other cosmetic things like the steel wheels on the LE.

 

[JoulesThief]

There is no way the Charging Package will be retro-fittable. Especially for that price. The parts price on the on-board charger alone will be more than the package price. The charging inlet and HVDC cable all the way back to the battery junction point will be another $650-$1,000.

I really hate that VW went this route to hit their price point on the SE. sirshan is clearly not the only one who didn't understand the limitations of the SE. They should stayed with other cosmetic things like the steel wheels on the LE.

There's a market for it... people that want to lease, drive for as cheap as possible in a BEV, and don't care when their 3 years are up. You won't ever have to worry about an abused DCFC'd battery in a 2016 SE, unless it suffers in the heat of the desert, because it will always be slow charged at level 1 or level 2.

It's no different than a Toyota RAV 4... a 10kwh charge rate on a 40 kwh battery is a C/4 charge rate, very easy on the battery life.

As far as VW is concerned, they are going to get those carbon credits however they need to. Caveat Emptor, do your due diligence before buying or leasing.

 

[johnnylingo]

I really hate that VW went this route to hit their price point on the SE. sirshan is clearly not the only one who didn't understand the limitations of the SE. They should stayed with other cosmetic things like the steel wheels on the LE.

In fairness, they're competing with the Focus and Leaf S, both of which have ~ 3 kW chargers and don't do fast charging either. I think the problem is more on the education: customers are confusing the 2015 LE with the 2016 SE not realizing there's a reason for the $4000 MSRP difference. The sales people should be pointing this out, and are not.

If they do go start offering an upgraded charger on the SE it will almost certainly be to compete with the Kia Soul EV-e, which lacks the bells and whistles of the higher trims but has the same 6.6 kW charger. The MSRP for the EV-E is about $32,000 so I wouldn't be surprised if VW eats some cost in order to match that price point.

 

[JoulesThief]

I really hate that VW went this route to hit their price point on the SE. sirshan is clearly not the only one who didn't understand the limitations of the SE. They should stayed with other cosmetic things like the steel wheels on the LE.

In fairness, they're competing with the Focus and Leaf S, both of which have ~ 3 kW chargers and don't do fast charging either. I think the problem is more on the education: customers are confusing the 2015 LE with the 2016 SE not realizing there's a reason for the $4000 MSRP difference. The sales people should be pointing this out, and are not.

If they do go start offering an upgraded charger on the SE it will almost certainly be to compete with the Kia Soul EV-e, which lacks the bells and whistles of the higher trims but has the same 6.6 kW charger. The MSRP for the EV-E is about $32,000 so I wouldn't be surprised if VW eats some cost in order to match that price point.

You can read bmwtechs adventures here on how he almost went down the same path, until I got him into a 2015 SEL with the DC Combo and 7.2 kwh level 2 charger at a great year end price in Southern CA.

I repeat, do your due diligence before you put your money down, and be realistic about ALL your electric needs and range needs, as well as a once in a while qc time saver charge on a longer trip. I know what my needs are, there's no way I could go without the DCFC SAE combo connector, and I gladly paid for the upgrade. When you need to save the time, you need to save the time. It's nice to have that option and not need it, vs, need it, and not have it, and have to wait for a 5 to 7.5 hr recharge.

 

[sirshan]

No retrofit is the short answer...figured that would be the answer, but here it officially:

"Good morning Sean,

My colleague, Mark, forwarded your email to me. It’s my pleasure to respond on his behalf.

Congratulations on your new VW Golf SE -- what an exciting new purchase! While we understand why it would be convenient to have DC fast charging capability in your 2016 e-Golf, this is not something that is currently possible. The 2016 Golf SE does not come automatically with fast charging. If the option wasn't purchased with the vehicle, there is no opportunity to retro-fit/upgrade.

We value feedback/inquiries we receive as this lets us know what our enthusiasts want. I've detailed your comments for internal review. While there’s no word about the configuration for the 2017MY yet, I do want to assure you, we are listening to our customers and will take what you are asking into consideration.


Amanda Z.
VolkTalk"

...I guess I should have done the homework before I signed. Anyhow, not a horrible thing - rebates for Fed, State, and Loyalty were too good to pass up. I did lease and was excited about just buying it out at the end. Given all this, maybe I just return it when lease is up and now that I am a bit more education in this EV world, Ill know what to look out for. I was ok with no LED Headlights and such as I knew I could upgrade it...charger speed though, boo!
This kind of car shopping is rare for me. I usually know everything about a car before I get to a dealership...this is one my wife wanted to "check out" when I got home from work one day...not even expecting to get anything.

 

[bizzle]

Don't beat yourself up too harshly.

If you're leasing your lease payments would be nearly double for an SEL.
The $10K incentives will still be around in three years.
VW will either make desirable incremental updates that you'll want in three years *or* something will be released that completely obsoletes your SE. In either case, you'll be able to get into another eGolf for roughly the same price because the MSRP isn't going to change much from year to year or give it back and choose that other amazing car.

As I wrote earlier, if you are finding that you are running out of range frequently then that's a tangible problem.
If, however, you are simply looking ahead and thinking you might find a fast charge option useful someday, some year, for some reason, then balance that against your current low lease payments and the fact that no matter which model you bought today stands to be outdated in a few years no matter what options it offered.

If you're a dual car family then the limitations are more easily negotiable than if you are single car family. But even with a single car, if you are contemplating infrequent long trips it'd be more cost effective to rent a car than to pay that SEL $6K premium over three years.


If you read around on the forum you'll notice that the guys that are happy about their fast charging SEL's, who got great pricing on their vehicles, also purchased last year's models and say they don't really care about the radio. Their payments are much, much higher than yours and they're stuck with a headunit that other people regularly say they hate with a passion (a feature that is worthless to someone who doesn't use the radio). Do you use the radio more often than you would use the fast charge option? I do. I use it all the time. There isn't a time I wouldn't use the radio. And carplay, for example, costs just as much as that fast charge option that will be added to the SE later this year (supposedly).

When, or if, it does materialize, that $1600 dollar option will be $4k to us who used the $2k loyalty dollars. And that's ignoring whatever discounts you were able to finagle from the dealership due to VW's emissions snafu.

 

[JoulesThief]

notice that the guys that are happy about their fast charging SEL's, who got great pricing on their vehicles, also purchased last year's models and say they don't really care about the radio. Their payments are much, much higher than yours and they're stuck with a headunit that other people regularly say they hate with a passion (a feature that is worthless to someone who doesn't use the radio). .

To my knowledge, roonie, bmwtech and myself bought our SEL's outright. No payments. No lien. No worries about what it's worth in 3 years or whenever we decide to sell, maybe 30 months. Outdated is a crazy term, my needs are unlikely to change in 3, 4, 5 or 6 years. And I have very capable vehicles if I need longer range or something more than an urban vehicle. The difference is that I was raised that the only thing you should ever finance in life is your home. Nothing else. If you can't afford to buy it with cash, then you need to save longer, until you can.

Do your homework, know exactly what you want, and never buy on impulse.

I usually go to 4 or 5 different dealerships, test drive one of what I want on their lot, and leave them with an email address, telling them I will be buying by the end of the month. If the car is still there, great, if not, I'll find a dealership that has something I do want.

 

[sirshan]

...dont get me wrong guys. DC Charging would have been a "nice to have"...

Still getting the JuiceBox Pro 40 to somewhat future proof the charging needs. Im sure it will increase as time passes on. At least we have an answer for the folks wondering if they can retro fit an upgrade. Thats a negative at this point unless some aftermarket company finds a way to do it for us with the 3.6kw charging systems onboard already.

 

[bizzle]

...dont get me wrong guys. DC Charging would have been a "nice to have"...

Still getting the JuiceBox Pro 40 to somewhat future proof the charging needs. Im sure it will increase as time passes on. At least we have an answer for the folks wondering if they can retro fit an upgrade. Thats a negative at this point unless some aftermarket company finds a way to do it for us with the 3.6kw charging systems onboard already.

The Leaf has aftermarket options to upgrade their 3.6KwH charging systems. You have to search some DIY forums to read about them to get a sense of the cost and difficulty. It's not impossible.

As for buying vs. financing. Edge case examples of people dropping 25K at a dealership to purchase a car outright are not valuable data points for the rest of the public. Most people do not purchase their vehicles outright, whether they have enough money to do so in their bank accounts. I *also* was raised not to purchase things on credit that I can't afford, so JoulesThief is not a special snowflake in that regard, but I was also raised to make wise financial decisions and my current credit status allows me the freedom to invest that money for a higher return rather than locking it into a depreciating asset.

I don't know why you wouldn't have taken that same $25K and bought VW stock with it, for example, but that's neither here nor there.
Fact of the matter is, financing or leasing an SEL model is a significant difference in cost.

The bottom line is that the features of the 2016 SE vs. 2015 SEL are worth comparing because some things are going to be more important and useful than others as I mentioned in my specific example of carplay compared to a worthless DC fast charge option (worthless in my circumstances, anyway).

 

[johnnylingo]

they're stuck with a headunit that other people regularly say they hate with a passion (a feature that is worthless to someone who doesn't use the radio).

This is a real good point. Looking down the road a few years I think everyone will either have or want CarPlay and Android Auto. This the reason I decided to wait for a 2016. I was not keen on getting a "brand new" car and then spending $2,000 to upgrade the headunit, if it was even possible at all.

 

[mfennell]

As for buying vs. financing. Edge case examples of people dropping 25K at a dealership to purchase a car outright are not valuable data points for the rest of the public. Most people do not purchase their vehicles outright, whether they have enough money to do so in their bank accounts. I *also* was raised not to purchase things on credit that I can't afford, so JoulesThief is not a special snowflake in that regard, but I was also raised to make wise financial decisions and my current credit status allows me the freedom to invest that money for a higher return rather than locking it into a depreciating asset.

Well said. The interest charges over the life of my lease amount to $900. That $900 premium entitles me to wash my hands of the car if it proves to be problematic (see: early Leafs). If I still like the car in 3 years, I can buy it with the future value of the money I did not spend on the car up front.

Leasing to get a car you could not otherwise afford is foolish but it's just another option to evaluate when you can afford it.

 

[JoulesThief]

they're stuck with a headunit that other people regularly say they hate with a passion (a feature that is worthless to someone who doesn't use the radio).

This is a real good point. Looking down the road a few years I think everyone will either have or want CarPlay and Android Auto. This the reason I decided to wait for a 2016. I was not keen on getting a "brand new" car and then spending $2,000 to upgrade the headunit, if it was even possible at all.

Huh? Why would everyone want it "then" when we don't want it now? False assumption. Some of us could care less about it, not "all" of us, or "everyone". Speak only for yourself, not for everyone else, that's far too broad a brush to be painting with here. I'd keep the $2000. I am in to my e-golf SEL for such a good price, it's a non issue what it is worth in 4 or 5 years... a non issue. Consider it the cost of going CO2 free, it's a sunken cost. I'd like to see drivers more focused on driving here in Los Angeles, instead of mindless and zoning out, listening to music, or getting irate at talk radio hosts or guests. Driving is an occupation and a heavy responsibility. Distractions like screaming kids in the car and music make it more dangerous for the operator to stay focused on the task at hand.

Google maps and smart phone I own already does everything I need in dash, for a lot less. Those in dash units fail, in 4 or 5 years. Waste of money.

 

[bizzle]

We are speaking for ourselves...that's the entire point. Obviously his sentence, "everyone will want" read in context is referring to everyone who wants a radio will want that radio to have carplay or android audio. Clearly he's not arguing that people who don't care about a radio would suddenly want a radio in the future to have advanced features.

You argue in these threads that fast charge is a must have feature and some of us are pointing out that Carplay (which is actually a higher priced feature than the DC Fast Charge option is going to cost) is a more frequently used feature for *us*.

If your emphasis is on safety then you might find it interesting that CarPlay is a lot safer for drivers to use than past phone/headunit integration.

As an example, texting is done completely via voice with CarPlay. Incoming texts are read out loud to the driver and the driver can speak to respond and then that response is transcribed back to the phone.

The phone is plugged in via USB, which enables "Hey Siri," voice activation. One can ask for directions, change music, and change output volume all though voice activation. In fact, it renders the steering wheel controls superfluous (for those SE drivers second guessing what you're missing with the steering wheel controls).