Car-net and delayed charging

[cynandvinecar]

So here's the latest on this continuing issue. The tech is now off the case and were dealing with a product manager in MI.

I agree that the EVSE is basically a dumb box and the call for a charge is being controlled by the car, not the EVSE (simple on board clock timer not with standing). The fact that this can only be controlled by the phone app and not in the car is in my mind ridiculous but it is what it is. However, as already mentioned, there is a handshake between the car and the EVSE so I suppose it could be the EVSE.

So...we have the pug-in (not hard wired) Bosch Power Xpress as recommended. We have now been told that this is the wrong one. It works fine by the way, and the small footprint worked well for our location, it's just the inability to perform with the delay charge function (perhaps, I'm not convinced yet).
VW is going to install a different, hard- wired unit at their expense. We keep the Xpress, which is handy because it is easily removable if we were to go somewhere that had a 220v socket.

I am dubious about this approach, but am willing to give them one last attempt to fix the delay charging issue. Is it a stalling tactic while they work on other issues? perhaps, but we love the car and want to keep it if possible.

Other advice verbatim... "Do NOT use the online Carnet service to set/reset the delay charging function. Only use the iphone/android phone app". The online version can be used to review other Carnet features but not to set the delay charge schedule. This is an amazing admission if true, what happens if you dont have an apple or android phone? Last time I looked there is no caveat on the online site to this effect so not sure what is going on.

I know we are on the "bleeding edge" of this technology for VW, but we didn't sign up to be a development beta test site. If this last hail-mary doesn't work we will be looking for a different solution.

 

[cove3]

Like it or not, we are a beta test group for car-net. After dealing with the contacts at 800, they are strictly administrative to sign you up, and while courteous. it's over their heads and when they try to go to a higher level of support, when they do get back to you, it's lost in translation. There's really nobody to talk to, and no formal system for assigning a case number and system for resolving issues and it's impossible to know what's coming from the car, who's designed the interface screens, and who's responsible for anything

There's no users manual, no help menu, no FAQ, no forum, no support menu, etc. None of the things you would expect a complex application to provide. Just look at the menu at the top of the car-net screen. VW models? Find a dealer?

I'm amazed vw & car-net aren't coordinating this and assigning two technical point men to monitor this forum and act as a go between us and vw/car-net We're a valuable resource trying to make car-net work. If they're planning on generating additional revenue beyond the trial period, they have a long way to go

It might be helpful to provide some structure for either topics or sub sub forums to focus/isolate areas, rather than car-net ruined my day. Eg sign up problems, delayed charging, conditioning, trip display, destinations, settings, user interface suggestions etc

I e-mailed Mike the forum administrator to set up car-net as it's own forum and move posts to it and he's been more than helpful if we want to setup subforums, move topics around, or anything else that would bring some structure and order to chaos. From 30 years of application design with IBM, I know a good user interface when I see one, and car-net is not one of those

Ron

 

[Tuningin]

So here's the latest on this continuing issue. The tech is now off the case and were dealing with a product manager in MI.

I agree that the EVSE is basically a dumb box and the call for a charge is being controlled by the car, not the EVSE (simple on board clock timer not with standing). The fact that this can only be controlled by the phone app and not in the car is in my mind ridiculous but it is what it is. However, as already mentioned, there is a handshake between the car and the EVSE so I suppose it could be the EVSE.

So...we have the pug-in (not hard wired) Bosch Power Xpress as recommended. We have now been told that this is the wrong one. It works fine by the way, and the small footprint worked well for our location, it's just the inability to perform with the delay charge function (perhaps, I'm not convinced yet).
VW is going to install a different, hard- wired unit at their expense. We keep the Xpress, which is handy because it is easily removable if we were to go somewhere that had a 220v socket.

I am dubious about this approach, but am willing to give them one last attempt to fix the delay charging issue. Is it a stalling tactic while they work on other issues? perhaps, but we love the car and want to keep it if possible.

Other advice verbatim... "Do NOT use the online Carnet service to set/reset the delay charging function. Only use the iphone/android phone app". The online version can be used to review other Carnet features but not to set the delay charge schedule. This is an amazing admission if true, what happens if you dont have an apple or android phone? Last time I looked there is no caveat on the online site to this effect so not sure what is going on.

I know we are on the "bleeding edge" of this technology for VW, but we didn't sign up to be a development beta test site. If this last hail-mary doesn't work we will be looking for a different solution.

Just my opinion, but the other charger will yield the same results. The pilot is a 1khz square wave 12 to -12v. This is the SAE standard. No matter which brand or model EVSE they switch to, this is what is provided.

My limited knowledge of the car's internal workings is simply that the car goes into a sleep state instead of constantly polling for changes through out the time that the car is plugged in. All that they need to do to make sure that the car works with a delayed EVSE is to have the car continuously call for charging even when it doesn't receive charging power. The EVSE will ignore this call for charging until the delay timer lapses. Not that complicated. That's what everyone else does. Right now it seems that the car goes, "oh well I'm asking for power and I'm not getting any, I'm going to sleep"

The whole Car-net departure time debacle is beyond my understanding except that someone didn't code it properly and no one tested the system before release.

If they had a actual detailed technical explanation of why one would work and not the other, demonstrating that they have a strong understanding of EV charging systems, I'd give them more credibility. At least they are trying something. I'm not so inclined to think that they are stalling, more so blindly throwing darts to see if they get lucky.

Let us know if that resolves it. Thanks

 

[jakman76]

Just to add to the list of owners with this issue..

I got the golf early December and had issues with the delayed charging from the day I got my EV-Rate turned on. Car is plugged in with the Bosch unit. Delayed LED is on, iphone app shows ready for charging with the right departure time (5am to have the charge finished in the low rate window midnight-5am). Car never charges unless I do a manual start. Very frustrating.

Brought the issue up with the VW service with a couple of back and forth's and here is the latest reply:

"We’re currently working towards a solution for the automatic charging feature of the Car-Net app, particularly with departure time."

Looks like something will happen...

 

[cynandvinecar]

A bit more information...I have been assured the Bosch Power Max will solve the delay charging problem and they are spending money to back up the statement. Again they are saying its the handshake, I will update this thread when we have some experience wi the new unit, probably a couple of weeks. They have acknowledged to me that the iphone app is a major problem and are working on that too.

New installer came out today and found problems with the original installation, only 30 amp trip instead of 40. Apparently code calls for a 220v service that has a duty cycle of more than 3 hrs needs to be fused at 125% of device rating. EVSE is rated at 30 amps so 40 is nearest over that.

 

[rjnerd]

A bit more information...I have been assured the Bosch Power Max will solve the delay charging problem and they are spending money to back up the statement. Again they are saying its the handshake, I will update this thread when we have some experience wi the new unit, probably a couple of weeks. They have acknowledged to me that the iphone app is a major problem and are working on that too.

New installer came out today and found problems with the original installation, only 30 amp trip instead of 40. Apparently code calls for a 220v service that has a duty cycle of more than 3 hrs needs to be fused at 125% of device rating. EVSE is rated at 30 amps so 40 is nearest over that.

The only difference between the two units is supposed to be that somebody installed a cord in place of the hard wired connection. (but given that Bosch repackages other companies chargers for the US market, they might well have different makers). In fact, you could have a cord installed on the Power Max, but it is a bit bulky to be portable.

Oh yea, since the car charger should be able to suck 32 amps, the 30A circuit is clearly a mistake. One reason for it, might be that there is no 40A plug, so you have to install a 50A circuit, which requires much heavier wire.

 

[yangotang]

Well, here's my experience with delayed charging, and charging in general.

Not only does this not work, but it also could cause a fire if you're playing with charge rates, because Car-Net sends false positives to the user through the UI!

I sent this video to VW customer care:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRphRALaPnc&feature=youtu.be

They replied with this PDF, saying "you're doing it wrong" and sent me this PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/axu90m7hftuv10d/Email%20attachment%20for%20Alex%20Yang.pdf?dl=0

I then did exactly as they stated, and found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ALgVpNpnQ&feature=youtu.be


I hope they solve this issue soon. I'd much rather though if they just took this car back from me. It'd make the jump to a tesla so much easier.

 

[jakman76]

I wished the US version would have the on board settings for the delayed charging like they have in Europe:

Still can't get my delayed charging to work. Annoying.

 

[cove3]

<<<I wished the US version would have the on board settings for the delayed charging like they have in Europe>>>

Do you think it's simply a software upgrade, and that someday the vehicle can have all the functions of car-net, including what you showed, a miles/kwh readout on the speedometer in addition to the entertainment display, a charge level setting, etc to name a few

Or does VW see car-net as a profit center and wouldn't want to give all functions away free. Even if they did, there's still an advantage to car net for the convenience of doing the functions remotely, provided the price is right

Ron

 

[jakman76]

I'm pretty sure the US version has the menus just disabled/inactive and let's car-net feed the settings in the background.
Doubt that's an easy way for them to do - not because of the software update (that should be easy), but all their manuals are not showing the feature. Makes it a mess for them. Same with a "start charge timer" so many of us would like to see.

 

[cove3]

<<<but all their manuals are not showing the feature>>

It seems like it should be the same as with the dynamic update of Windows or Firefox or Office. Almost weekly with Firefox. None of us use manuals, but we all figure out the function or problem from trial and error, forums, help menus, FAQs, or Google search. (car-net could use some of these. Why can't they sponsor a forum or have a help/FAQ on their site?)

I can't think of anything I haven't been able to get to work with a combination of the above.
Hopefully, the vehicle functions aren't as near in complexity or number, but still.

Ron

 

[jack8trades]

You may have noticed the posts regarding sending destinations from the Car-Net web portal or app and having them only get received by the car's nav system if it's turned on.

Today, I was at a public L2 charger and noticed the estimated charge time was twice what I expected, and the station indicated the car was only drawing some 3KW. I then remembered setting the charge rate for immediate charge, and that of the charge location profile I use, to 16 amps.

While the car was charging, I set the rates back to 32 amps via the Android app, hoping it would change the rate the car was charging at on the fly. I knew that was a pipe dream, but I tried.

Then I tried stopping the charge, changing the setting to another rate and back again, waiting a bit, and starting the charge again. Still no go.

Finally, I got in the car and did the same thing while the car was turned on. This time when I resumed charging, I got the 6k+ KW rate. Whew.

This experience, plus the similar situation with sending destinations, got me thinking that maybe we'd have more success with our delayed charging setups if we make the changes while the car is on. The app even seems to respond slightly quicker then, though that could be my imagination, or even because I was using the phone's LTE cellular network rather than WiFi.

I won't get a chance to test this theory myself until tomorrow, because there's too much charge on my car right now, but I thought some other adventurous E-Golf tinkerers (i.e. desperate to get delayed charging to work,) might want to experiment.

 

[cynandvinecar]

<<<I wished the US version would have the on board settings for the delayed charging like they have in Europe>>>

Do you think it's simply a software upgrade, and that someday the vehicle can have all the functions of car-net, including what you showed, a miles/kwh readout on the speedometer in addition to the entertainment display, a charge level setting, etc to name a few

Or does VW see car-net as a profit center and wouldn't want to give all functions away free. Even if they did, there's still an advantage to car net for the convenience of doing the functions remotely, provided the price is right

Ron

It is interesting to know that the charge settings are available on-board in the EU eGolfs but not here. We have been in contact with VW since December trying to get the delayed charging option to work. It is a big deal here because the juice is 1/3 rd of the cost when charging between 12 and 6 am. At this point they have not found a solution and we are looking at giving the car back. I somehow doubt that monetizing carnet after the first 3 free years is worth losing customers over. Very sad because we love the car.

 

[Tuningin]

<<<I wished the US version would have the on board settings for the delayed charging like they have in Europe>>>

Do you think it's simply a software upgrade, and that someday the vehicle can have all the functions of car-net, including what you showed, a miles/kwh readout on the speedometer in addition to the entertainment display, a charge level setting, etc to name a few

Or does VW see car-net as a profit center and wouldn't want to give all functions away free. Even if they did, there's still an advantage to car net for the convenience of doing the functions remotely, provided the price is right

Ron

It is interesting to know that the charge settings are available on-board in the EU eGolfs but not here. We have been in contact with VW since December trying to get the delayed charging option to work. It is a big deal here because the juice is 1/3 rd of the cost when charging between 12 and 6 am. At this point they have not found a solution and we are looking at giving the car back. I somehow doubt that monetizing carnet after the first 3 free years is worth losing customers over. Very sad because we love the car.

Is SCE your utility provider? The new TOU rates that they are converting us all over to now has super off peak rates from 10pm to 8am. Since the rate now starts at 10pm at least I can start charging manually before I go to sleep. It's enough to give me a workaround to this frustrating Carnet problem.

 

[cove3]

No, I have Con Ed and don't even have a time of use meter. There's no way to make it economic, as the monthly cost for such a meter and the big jump in daytime usage costs switching to such a meter means I would have to use much more 12-8am electricity than just charging the car

Ron

 

[Tuningin]

No, I have Con Ed and don't even have a time of use meter. There's no way to make it economic, as the monthly cost for such a meter and the big jump in daytime usage costs switching to such a meter means I would have to use much more 12-8am electricity than just charging the car

Ron

TOU or Time of use is the type of plan that you are on. Rates vary depending on what time of day it is.

 

[cove3]

No, I pay a flat .31/kwh no matter the time. Con Ed has no way of knowing when I use electricity. They come by to read the meter for total kwh usage every month.

Installing a time of use meter would cost 20/month, but then my prime time cost goes up to .41/kwh, although the 12-8am drops to .13/kwh. But I dont use any electricity from 12-8am except to charge the car, and little of that as I don't put many miles on it. So there's no way to make delayed charging economic. I would like to use delayed charging to help out society, even though I'd be paying .31 for it.

Ron

 

[Tuningin]

No, I pay a flat .31/kwh no matter the time. Con Ed has no way of knowing when I use electricity. They come by to read the meter for total kwh usage every month.

Installing a time of use meter would cost 20/month, but then my prime time cost goes up to .41/kwh, although the 12-8am drops to .13/kwh. But I dont use any electricity from 12-8am except to charge the car, and little of that as I don't put many miles on it. So there's no way to make delayed charging economic. I would like to use delayed charging to help out society, though.

Ron

My misunderstanding. i thought that you were saying that you are paying a higher rate because you couldn't charge off-peak.

Sounds like Con Ed wants to charge customers for Smart Meters. Over here, So Cal Edison preferred to switch everyone onto smart meters.

 

[GadgetGav]

No, I pay a flat .31/kwh no matter the time. Con Ed has no way of knowing when I use electricity. They come by to read the meter for total kwh usage every month.

Installing a time of use meter would cost 20/month, but then my prime time cost goes up to .41/kwh, although the 12-8am drops to .13/kwh. But I dont use any electricity from 12-8am except to charge the car, and little of that as I don't put many miles on it. So there's no way to make delayed charging economic. I would like to use delayed charging to help out society, even though I'd be paying .31 for it.

Ron

Similar here with NStar. The variable rate would be much more expensive, even after they jacked their rates 60%
I've switched supplier and when the snow melts, I'll be looking at solar. We'll need to remove a large tree but that's worryingly close to the house anyway, so it should go. It would be great to have NStar having to pay me!

 

[Octavius07]

I just got an e golf today..i dont own a charger yet, and have not charged it yet.

I was reading the manual, to figure out how to do delayed charging...
Inside my "gas cap" area of my car there are two buttons. One has the charging symbol, the other has a charging symbol with a clock. I assume this is the delayed charging button.

There is no mention of this button existing in the manual.

Is this a button they added later to address the problem of delayed charging?
Does anyone else have this button in their e golf? Can you tell me how to use it?
Do i really have to use an app to effectively use this car?
I would rather just charge the car without joining that car net thing......

Im leaning towards the seimens charging station....but i understand the issues with the car falling asleep after two hours......any solutions?

Will this magical "charging clock" button work for delayed charging?