Car-net and delayed charging

[miimura]

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with your e-Golf.

After we had the car serviced at Sunnyvale in May it has been working as expected with the provided 120V Delphi/Clipper Creek charging cord. My wife's typical daily mileage in the e-Golf is about 25 miles, so the 120V EVSE can recharge those miles during the midnight to 7am window. It has never failed to start a delayed charge. The only problem is that sometimes it starts before midnight, but that's just because it takes more than 7 hours to recharge the lower battery level. In those cases, I just plug it in late, let it go all night and then plug it into my 240V station when I wake up. The hour or so at the higher power is enough to top it off.

You will have to ask for the loaner car. They may or may not give it to you in the morning on the first day, but once it becomes clear that they will have it overnight, they should give you one if you ask.

One more thing I should make clear. I have the "Off Peak Power" setting disabled and just use the "Departure Time" to set up the delayed charging. If you have the "Off Peak Power" enabled under "Manage Charging Locations" in the app, please try to disable it and test again. I have been told that this feature does not work, so if you have it set, it may be messing up the whole thing.

Good Luck.

 

[eGopher]

Thanks for the advice and help.
My eGolf is now at Sunnyvale VW.
I've connected the ClipperCreek support folks with the Sunnyvale VW and VW corporate people.
Hopefully they will talk to each other and get this working.
Classic multi-party interoperability problem. No single throat to choke.

 

[whipper25]

After awhile trying to figure out how Departure Times work, I got things finally working.

As an overview, if the car is plugged in, my car charges between 11pm-6am, which is when I’m home and it’s sitting in the garage. It also charges at anytime between 6:01am and 6pm, this is when I’m at work and the car is plugged in. This is how I wanted it setup.

There are basically two things I had to consider when setting this up through the car net app on the phone.
Charging Locations
Departure Times (schedule)

———————————————————————————
1. Charging Locations

I started off with configuring the Charging Locations. I named the first one Home, and set it as such
Name: Home
Select Function: Charging
Charging Settings: 100%, Maximum
Off-Peak power: Enabled, 11:00pm-6:00am

I then created another Charging Location called Work with the following settings:
Name: Work
Select Function: Charging
Charging Settings: 100%, Maximum
Off-Peak power: Enabled, 6:01am-6:00pm

The thing to note is that the ‘Off-Peak’ power setting is used as sort of a window of time of when you want the car charging. So if my car was plugged in during any of those time windows (11pm-6am, 6:01am-6pm), then it would charge. The only time it wouldn’t charge, would be during 6:01pm to 10:59pm.

———————————————————————————
2. Departure Times (schedule)

Then I configured the Departure Times to set the days of the week where the 'Charging Locations' rules applied.

So I have two configured Departure Times (for home and work). Here is the first one (home):
Departure time 1: Enabled
Time: 6:00am *This is basically the time you want it to stop charging. To maximize charging time I made sure it’s set to the same ‘final’ time as my Off-Peak window of time
Schedule: Regularly, Mon-Sun

Here is the setting for the second one (work):
Departure time 2: Enabled
Time: 6:00pm *When I leave work, or when it should stop charging if it was charging at work
Schedule: Regularly, Mon-Fri

The Schedule is what makes Departure Times important. Both these Departure Times are enabled to make sure that my Off-Peak window of time of 11:00pm-6:00am (or when I’m home), charges regularly everyday Monday through Sun. As well making sure that the car charges anytime during 6:01am-6:00pm (or when I’m at work) ONLY from Mon-Fri (so on the weekends, when it’s sitting in the garage it doesn’t charge after 6am).

———————————————————————————

Hope this all makes sense, but I can confirm that the Departure Times feature does indeed work. All I need to worry about is making sure that I plug my car in.

 

[Jimbo435]

OK, working on my second week of ownership. So not much experience, but something is definitely wrong with the car-net app. I only have the 120V charger so far (240v next week if I can find an electrician to hookup my hcs-40). I started just charging when I got home at 5:00, but it turns out the exterior plug I was using is same one for master bathroom, and first night my wife's blow dryer and the car blew the circuit. So I started playing with departure times. First night everything seemed to go fine. (we typically only use 1/4 charge per day). Second night (if I remember right) it had an hour to go in morning. Third night, did not charge. (maybe not locked?) Since then seems to work, but is always about an hour from completion. I intend to set departure time (now 5:45) back to 4:45 to work around the issue.

But before all this, almost immediately after downloading app, something seemed off. It seems to not know what day it is. At some points during the day (this morning at 6:10), it says "Departure time 1: Today, 5:45am" even if it is after 5:45am. At some point during the day it does change to Tomorrow, 5:45am (as it says while I am writing this). It could be a programming or translation issue...

But EYE think part of the issue with the app/delayed charging, has to do with timezones. I've confirmed my setting on the car to GMT-8, with DST on. Which seemed right to me, but car had no Pacific Time, just East, Central, and West, or something like that so I hope this is right.

Anyway, the clincher is the Driving data graphs under the Remote icon. After a few days I checked these out, but the days are all messed up.
Right now when I look, I see for last few bars it says (in order):
Today 6:37 am
Yesterday 4:57 pm
Yesterday 6:23 am
Yesterday 9:12 pm
Tuesday 2:50 pm
Monday 4:34 pm
Monday 3:49 pm
Sunday 5:09 pm
seems they change too, but not sure.

So somehow it slipped Tuesday evening into Wednesday, and skipped Monday and Tuesday morning altogether.

Some other things:
- update screen, wait, get OK message, but update button top right still shows "x hrs ago". Only if I unlock or lock the car, (wake it up?) and then update does it change to "now"

-Used a public charger for first time Tuesday as a test before my first 80+ mile trip next week. First charger would keep canceling, tried second charger, it worked. But then I realized I had my computer locked in car. Unlocking I would assume stop the charge. So I sat and looked at my phone... Luckily in 20 minutes I had gone from 53% to 98%.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Now I read that 2016 car will support carplay? Kinda wished I had waited a couple months...

Jim

 

[sweetwagon]

Before you install, you might want to consider another L2 charger if you need to delay charge to off peak hours. Clipper creek L2 chargers have known issue with eGolf and departure based charging.

I think clipper creek will refund your money if you ask them, they are aware of the issue.

Anyway, there are several other chargers i'm aware of from my own experience and from other posters that do work:

Included L1 charger
Levitron EVB40
Juicebox 30
Juicebox 40 Pro
Siemens 30A

I'm sure there are more, perhaps others can post additional models they've had success with

 

[Jimbo435]

Before you install, you might want to consider another L2 charger...

I'm gonna risk it. Everything I know about electronics tells me its not the charger, its the car. I am assuming the Clippercreek meets the charging standard. It's the damn sleeping car that causes the problem, and maybe even the software in the app. (which I hope will be fixed some day)

I can't get nightly rates anyway. Where I'm at, the meter won't do it. So I get to pay .33/KWh because I am already into 200%+ of baseline (320 KWh). On the other hand, I didn't buy to save money...

I only "departure charge" (copyright 2015, JL) because the 110 charger is on same circuit as our master bath, and the circuit can't handle car and blow dryer. Once I get the 240V installed, I will probably charge when I plug in.

Jim

 

[PowdaSuga]

Update: Poor response from the dealer and poor response from VW. I tested the vehicle for a few weeks noting my findings...They have had it for a few weeks without responding to me. I had to escalate to the GM of the dealership to get any progress. See url for a very dry report of my finding, seriously it's boring:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1edMZ5ebFEHlxc99PfN3AAaRb9WfJMnsZ4kbYVGG8XKM/edit?usp=sharing

Findings: Consistently the car would not "wake up" to charge. It will work on a delayed timer if the car needs to charge immediately. Meaning if I plug the car in close enough to the scheduled departure time that it has to start charging right away. If the car ever "goes to sleep" it will not wake back up to charge. I sent my test results over to VW Customer Care and the Dealership. The dealership is going to come by my house to run some tests next Wednesday. I will provide another update then.

Frustration continues!

-Powda

 

[eGopher]

Following up on PowdaSuga's experience, I too have eGolf SEL with ClipperCreek HCS-40 serviced at Sunnyvale VW.

Regional Customer Care rep assigned since April.
Brought the car in twice for the delayed charging issue.
2nd time dealer kept the car for a week and ended up replacing the "Control Module".
I even left them my cell phone with the mobile app!
(which their eGolf "trained Expert" had NEVER seen!)

Before the Control Module was replaced, even the supplied Level 1 charger wouldn't wake up either for the delayed charge.
After replacement, the Level 1 charger worked.

ClipperCreek HCS-40 behavior is unchanged. It still does not wake up and start the car charging!

Reported back to ClipperCreek customer support, my VW cust care rep and the VW dealership.
I am planning to bring it in for a 3rd time but I think this is a waste of my time because the VW dealer does not have an HCS-40 nor does ClipperCreek have an eGolf to test this on.
ClipperCreek sent VW engineering an HCS-40 but apparently nobody at VW thought to hook it up and actually test the delayed charging function.


I noticed from your logs that you always had the amps set to "MAX AMPS".
Have you tried testing at 13 AMPS?
I know the HCS-40 is capable of 32 AMPS but most other EVSEs only go to 30 AMPS.
Wouldn't that suck if that was the cause?

UPDATE: 2015-08-22
I tested delayed charging at 13 AMPS with the same result... the car does not wake up.

 

[miimura]

I noticed from your logs that you always had the amps set to "MAX AMPS".
Have you tried testing at 13 AMPS?
I know the HCS-40 is capable of 32 AMPS but most other EVSEs only go to 30 AMPS.
Wouldn't that suck if that was the cause?

This part is all nonsense. The EVSE is not adjustable, the car is. If the car is not waking up and the EVSE is doing the same thing it always does and presents a 32A pilot signal, what the hell is the difference? The car is still asleep and not waking up to charge.

You know, I just remembered that the original HCS-40 was set to 30A also. Somtime in the last year they figured out that if the unit requires a 40A breaker, they may as well deliver 32A, so they changed the firmware and voila! An enhanced product! Anyway, if Clipper Creek is in the loop, have them flash a unit back to 30A and see if it makes any difference. However, I doubt that it will.

 

[oftheseven]

After awhile trying to figure out how Departure Times work, I got things finally working.

Hi,

Did you have the TSB update applied? Also, what type of EVSE do you use?
I leased my car last May and haven't been successful with delayed charging.

Thanks

 

[PowdaSuga]

Update #2:

Dealership sent a few technicians to my house to test my car net (verizon) signal and perform a few other tests on the vehicle. They sent the findings to the regional technical specialist and he wants to see the car. I brought the car back in today and they are not sure how long they will have it for. The specialist was brought in onsite to troubleshoot. I will provide more updates as they become available.

If this doesn't fix it I am going to return the charger and purchase one with a schedule.

-Powda

 

[eGopher]

I am curious if you've tried getting delayed charging to work with the included Level 1 charger.

Can anyone explain how the eGolf is supposed to wake up and start charging?

Does the car
A: Wake up on it's own based on calculating time of day, departure time and time to charge to desired %?
or
B: The car-net server sends a wake-up packet over the cellular (verizon) network?

Based on the test that the dealership did, it would look to be (B).
That would be the opposite of how I would have done it, especially in the USA where vast stretches of ground have crappy cell coverage.
Yeah I could see it in Europe where there is decent GSM coverage everywhere, even underground nut it the USA that would be a very bad way to do this.

But, if it was bad cell coverage at your home, then the Level 1 EVSE wouldn't wake up either.
that would be an easy thing to test.

If it is (A), then that would mean the car would need to sleep with one eye open, checking every couple of minutes to see if it is time to wake up using power from the 12V battery. I'm not sure that is a great way to do this either.

Which dealership sent the technicians out to your house?
My dealership seems to have given up because it worked OK with the EVSE in their shop.
I see no point in bringing it back in for service at the dealer unless something else has changed on the VW customer care side.
VW engineering has several models of ClipperCreek EVSEs in their labs; they've had them for months.
It would be so much easier for them to do the testing themselves instead of making the end customers do it for them.

 

[miimura]

As far as I can tell, this is how the process works.

- When you set the schedule, CarNet sends the departure time(s) to the car and enables delayed charging as necessary. If it cannot reach the car or the car does not respond appropriately, it will show an error in the app at that time.
- When you plug in the car, it samples the voltage and pilot signal so it knows the capability of the EVSE. Based on that information and other CarNet charge settings, it calculates a start time for charging. Then it goes to sleep.
- When the start time arrives, it wakes up and tries to start charging.

I would not expect any commercially available EVSE with built-in timer to work with the e-Golf because they all work with only the Pilot signal, which the e-Golf ignores while it's sleeping. I think the only way to implement EVSE based timer charging is to cut the Proximity pin signal and then restore it. This simulates a Plug-Out/Plug-In event. That should wake up the car and let it start charging. However, due to the charge port lock, the car may completely ignore all the J1772 signals because it should be impossible for any state change to happen while the port is locked.

 

[Stretch2727]

As far as I can tell, this is how the process works.

- When you set the schedule, CarNet sends the departure time(s) to the car and enables delayed charging as necessary. If it cannot reach the car or the car does not respond appropriately, it will show an error in the app at that time.
- When you plug in the car, it samples the voltage and pilot signal so it knows the capability of the EVSE. Based on that information and other CarNet charge settings, it calculates a start time for charging. Then it goes to sleep.
- When the start time arrives, it wakes up and tries to start charging.

I would not expect any commercially available EVSE with built-in timer to work with the e-Golf because they all work with only the Pilot signal, which the e-Golf ignores while it's sleeping. I think the only way to implement EVSE based timer charging is to cut the Proximity pin signal and then restore it. This simulates a Plug-Out/Plug-In event. That should wake up the car and let it start charging. However, due to the charge port lock, the car may completely ignore all the J1772 signals because it should be impossible for any state change to happen while the port is locked.

Completely agree with your assessment. I have a Juicebox 40 with a built in timer. It does not work in timed mode as the car is asleep when the EVSE tries to start up. I am using the built in departure timing with the eGolf and have the EVSE as "always on". We also have an MB B-Class which has no built in car charging timer...so I need to alternate between the timed (TOU) settings (MB) and "always on" on my EVSE (VW). A little frustrating but it all works.

 

[PowdaSuga]

Update 3:

Car was at the dealership for 2 weeks. They replaced the charger in the car and the dealership said it successfully charged on a schedule for 3 nights in a row. I brought the car home and tried it on my clipper creek charger. I didn't adjust any settings on carnet, just used the ones the dealership said worked....They did not. Car didn't charge two nights in a row.

Last night I installed the Chargepoint Home EVSE I ordered off amazon. I added the preset PG&E profile to the EVSE (charges after 11pm till 7am) and turned off all the delayed charging features on carnet. Plugged the car in and it went to sleep after 1 minute. 4 hours later to my surprise the car started charging at 11pm! I can't say this is completely resolved but it is definitely promising. I will keep testing and report back.

-Powda

 

[voidstar]

Last night I installed the Chargepoint Home EVSE I ordered off amazon. I added the preset PG&E profile to the EVSE (charges after 11pm till 7am) and turned off all the delayed charging features on carnet. Plugged the car in and it went to sleep after 1 minute. 4 hours later to my surprise the car started charging at 11pm! I can't say this is completely resolved but it is definitely promising. I will keep testing and report back.
-Powda

Wow, I've been thinking about doing this too, although I love everything about Clipper Creek as a company. What did you end up doing with your CC unit?

 

[madscot]

This matches my experience too. With CP Home unit installed the car (Jan 2015 vintage) happily charged at 11pm the last two nights, maybe my overnight charging anxiety will soon be a distant memory.

Last night I installed the Chargepoint Home EVSE I ordered off amazon. I added the preset PG&E profile to the EVSE (charges after 11pm till 7am) and turned off all the delayed charging features on carnet. Plugged the car in and it went to sleep after 1 minute. 4 hours later to my surprise the car started charging at 11pm! I can't say this is completely resolved but it is definitely promising. I will keep testing and report back.
-Powda

Wow, I've been thinking about doing this too, although I love everything about Clipper Creek as a company. What did you end up doing with your CC unit?

 

[PowdaSuga]

This matches my experience too. With CP Home unit installed the car (Jan 2015 vintage) happily charged at 11pm the last two nights, maybe my overnight charging anxiety will soon be a distant memory.

Last night I installed the Chargepoint Home EVSE I ordered off amazon. I added the preset PG&E profile to the EVSE (charges after 11pm till 7am) and turned off all the delayed charging features on carnet. Plugged the car in and it went to sleep after 1 minute. 4 hours later to my surprise the car started charging at 11pm! I can't say this is completely resolved but it is definitely promising. I will keep testing and report back.
-Powda

Wow, I've been thinking about doing this too, although I love everything about Clipper Creek as a company. What did you end up doing with your CC unit?

Chargepoint Home charger worked multiple nights in a row! I am in conversations with Clipper Creek now and requesting that I receive a refund on their device. We will see how that goes for me.

 

[acdcvw]

I'd love to see further confirmation that the CP unit's timer works because I haven't installed my JuiceBox yet and will return it as this would justify the price difference.

 

[acdcvw]

I emailed emotorwerks and explained that I wanted to return the charger given that the timer functionality didn't work and this was their response; "We have since fixed this problem, and that fix should be applied on your unit, based on the version / ship date."

I only just received the unit and am still waiting on the 50 amp circuit breaker to arrive so It will be a week or so before I can actually test it but according to them the JuiceBox timer has been fixed to work with the e-Golf.