Build Thread: Performance e-Golf

[zanzabar]

STOPPING DISTANCE and feel much worse than in the gti, although I did have some higher performance pads installed there.

-I wonder if it would be possible and make sense to put some GTI (or other, larger) brakes on the e-golf?

Before you go chasing brake solutions, first put good TIRES on it. I suspect you'll be surprised at how much of a difference it makes. 225 width tires in any decent summer or high performance all season tread are going to make a world of difference. I'm still on the stock brakes and in autocross I was mostly braking limited, but it was still the tires that gave out first before the pads did.

If that still doesn't do it for you, try better pads.

For wheels, why not go look for some GTI wheels you like? You can likely sell the e-Golf wheels locally or online for a decent amount. (maybe get up to ~$100 each)

 

[PeterS]

I upgraded to a set of 225/45-17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All-Season, and indeed there is a huge difference in grip and confidence compared to the OEM Bridgestone tires. A lot less wheel spin especially in the wet.

Braking: I never tried an emergency braking before/after but I guess the better grip should help.
IMO, due to EV regen-braking first before using the pads there is a slight delay before the full pad brake power is applied and that impact.

BTW: Here's a video from Auto/Motor/Sport (German magazine - video is in German) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHZpih1WzYw
In their review they complain about the poor braking distance ("Not up to current standards") and blame it mostly on the tires

 

[Deschodt]

So glad that thread exists... I asked similar questions with my previous Egolf lease (2016) and was basically told to go hug a tree and that I bought the wrong car and was supposed to hypermile ;-) I am now on Egolf #2 (2019) with the same issues and wishes (but more power, noticeably more, yeah 2019)...

On my 2016 I did max performance tires (forget which brand now) in an attempt to reduce the annoying squeal when you braked lightly on a painted line, and the overall lack of grip of the ecopias.. It worked for a bit but the squeal eventually returned, albeit less loud - so I figure the squeal is a function of the transition from regen to pads and then hitting a low friction surface which throws all the braking math out the window... I lost about 10% range on performance tires only, on my mixed freeway/city commute, and also if I'm honest the car lost of it's immediate "take off" with the heavier tires. VEry noticeable despite the small difference on the initial tip in of the gas pedal.

Now with the 2019 I'd like to repeat and do better possibly. I hate the stock wheels visually, the numb turn in of the car on 16s, and the lack of grip. I've been concerned about those flimsy looking lightweight aftermarket wheels but then again relaized the car is only heavier by 300 lbs, so one 2 passengers, so shoouldn't matter.... I'd really like to not lose performance though, losing range I'm fine with but I enjoy the E-Golf take off... I was hoping your 17" experiment with a lightweight would yield positive results... Even considered 18" GTI wheels but looks like unsprung weight is an issue as 18s are substantially heavier and lighter tires cannot compensate... Tire rack has tire weights and it's a significant variatin but hard to look up (gota look at each one's specs)

Have we got all the numbers posted here in a convenient format ? Stock wheel alone, stock + ecopia ?
Your 17x8 et35 Advanti DST Storm wheel alone, plus tire ?
The other poster 16" ?

Did you guys notice range loss only ? or did you maintain the same weight per corner (wheel + tire) and therefore presumably maintain the same acceleration (or, egads, improve?) ?
Cost of said combo ?

 

[zanzabar]

Did you guys notice range loss only ? or did you maintain the same weight per corner (wheel + tire) and therefore presumably maintain the same acceleration (or, egads, improve?) ?
Cost of said combo ?

Range loss: not perceptible (city driving mostly) but probably some, on the highway maybe 5%. Acceleration improvement is VERY perceptible. Cornering and braking improvement is absolutely massive!

But like you said, you need to check the weight of every possibly wheel AND TIRE combination you are interested and try to select one that's as light as possible, though there may be a downside of decreased strength in wheels along with extra lightness. There is quite a lot of variation in tire weight too, so don't disregard those potential couple pounds.

In general a 16" wheel is going to be lighter than a 17", which is lighter than 18" so I highly recommend staying with the smaller rims. You will NOT lose cornering ability with a 16 vs a 17 or 18, not sure where that misconception comes from. The larger wheels are for LOOKS ONLY, not performance gains. In addition, two wheels that weigh exactly the same but one is 16" and the other 17", the 16 will still be more efficient on a car because the moment of inertia is smaller due to the weight being at a shorter radius from the axis of rotation.

I don't remember what the combo I went with (Konig Runlight 16" and Sumitomo HTR A/S P02 tires) ended up weighing compared to the OE rims and Bridgestones, I think it was nearly identical. Total cost for wheels and tires mounted was I think just under $1000.

 

[Jerkstore]

Love this thread and hope to contribute soon. I recently picked up a 2019 se, and come from more of a performance car background. I’ve only had the car a couple weeks, but I’ve already got the golf r spare tire kit, as well as 3 new car seats to fit across the back. Hopefully the extra weight doesn’t slow me down too much...but I plan to add new lightweight wheels and performance all seasons as well as a new homelink autodim mirror. Also going with the H&R springs to get rid of the wheel gap. Doubt I’ll be doing too much more than that, this has to be the best bang for the buck of any daily driver I’ve ever considered.

 

[PeterS]

For my rim/tire combo, the weight is (according to DTD's website) Rims König Interflow are 21.56 lbs and the tires (Goodyear F1 Eagle AS) are 24 lbs.
Haven't measured it however. Cost mounted and shipped (with tax) was (after a 60 rebate) was ~$1000.

Efficiency/Range impact: It's hard to tell for my commute since there is a big difference in traffic and average speed, plus it is getting colder (heater). I think I was at 4.2miles/kWh and now it is down 4.0. I also added a hitch (~50lbs) which may have some impact too.

 

[jedcul]

These might make a nice lightweight choice at around 16 lbs for a 17"
Note that price shown is Canadian dollars.

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=fc04&fn=titanium&v=volkswagen_2018_e-golf_comfortline-comfortline_s_pp

 

[JoulesThief]

Note that price shown is Canadian Loonies.

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=fc04&fn=titanium&v=volkswagen_2018_e-golf_comfortline-comfortline_s_pp

Fixed that for you.

 

[mpulsiv]

These might make a nice lightweight choice at around 16 lbs for a 17"
Note that price shown is Canadian dollars.

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=fc04&fn=titanium&v=volkswagen_2018_e-golf_comfortline-comfortline_s_pp

That's pretty light www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=fc04&fn=titanium
17" is an ideal size for Golf. Lighter and as wide as 18" https://tiresize.com/calculator
17" = 225/45/17
18" = 225/40/18

I found a good deal on 18" Cadiz wheel that came of Golf R

 

[Fredness]

...and here I thought it was just me!

I plan on the same, starting stock and replacing items as they wear/break with lighter/better pieces.
Looking at SCCA Autocross, limiting my rims to a 17x7 max.

Seats are high on the list, I can't stay planted in these on my daily commute!
Going with dedicated 200 Traction race tires 225/45-17ish, keeping the pizza cutters and LRR tires for my commute.
I'm looking to hypermile AND track!
Thanks for this thread!

 

[cccmanhattan]

Sorry for the lack of replies here guys. Our shop has been pretty stacked and getting my own car worked on is a cobbler's shoes scenario I'm afraid. Springs are here, waiting to go in and the Revozport Aerokit from the E-Trophy cars is on the way.

One update on range and performance. If I'm in the right conditions, some traffic, being somewhat conscious of range, I can still average 4.5m/kwh and get over 80 miles out of a charge which is what the car was doing long term before I modified it. However the faster I drive, the more the range diminishes, I'd imagine the relative effects from the extra rolling resistance, like aero drag, are much greater with speed.

Has anyone tried this chip? I might check it out
https://evtun.com/evchip-for-e-golf-e-up.html

If that still doesn't do it for you, try better pads.

I agree, I drive spiritedly, but try to focus on balance so don't get into a ton of heavy braking scenarios. That said, if I've ever had a panic brake situation, I haven't had an issue and the extra grip from the tires definitely helps on both braking and acceleration.

The thing to remember when you go to bigger brakes (and wheels) is your adding unsprung rotational mass, which is the worst weight you can add for performance and likely has an even bigger impact on EV Range. You might get better braking, but you'll lose acceleration. If you can accomplish the brake feel you are looking for with pads, skip the big rotors and calipers.

I am now on Egolf #2 (2019) with the same issues and wishes (but more power, noticeably more, yeah 2019)...


...Have we got all the numbers posted here in a convenient format ? Stock wheel alone, stock + ecopia ?
Your 17x8 et35 Advanti DST Storm wheel alone, plus tire ?
The other poster 16" ?

Did you guys notice range loss only ? or did you maintain the same weight per corner (wheel + tire) and therefore presumably maintain the same acceleration (or, egads, improve?) ?
Cost of said combo ?

Man, now that I know the 2019 has more power and the're taking $10k+ off the sticker price, I might have to switch gears and get a new one for this build!

I haven't weighed new and old wheel/tire combos, but I want to say the Advantis are somewhere around 18.5lbs, not the lightest in that size, but light for the money. Tires are listed as 21lbs. Seat of the pants I'd say acceleration is better.

Total cost shipped from tirerack was $1,241.07, but I have a wholesale account so add maybe 10-15% to that for retail.

 

[Deschodt]

Ok, so I did my own experiment... My goal was to a) get rid of the Godawful stock wheels b) go 17 or 18 to get some turn in with less flex in the sidewall c) Have better braking, especially on wet surfaces or painted surfaces than the stock ecrapia, d) make the car look a little nicer.

I installed the lightest 18" for a GTI that I could find, Enkei TFR or something - 18" per corner, unlike the stock GTI wheels which are a gut busting 25 lbs on average...

Then I made a small mistake in installing "slightly less sticky than race tires" Pilot sport AS3 on it.. I think I should have gone with something way less sticky and with a higher wear rating.... To sort of replicate the ecopia a little in terms of rolling resistance, but I'm an old dog and I always go for old tricks, I.e. sticky tires - they save your ass once, they paid for themselves... Wish there were eco tires in 225/45/18

Results so far:
- The car feels great. GTI like in transitions, less understeer pushing on on-ramps, better body control...
- The braking is excellent now... So is the looks (to my eyes)
- The acceleration is preserved: So at low speed, the light wheel + heavier tire yields about the same combo of rotational mass and unsprung weight as the Astana+ecopia, so the car STILL scoots at traffic lights...
- However, on the freeway, the grippier tire resistance and size wreaks havoc on my range. I thought I'd mitigate that with the light wheels and it did, for acceleration, not for resistance... I've lost 15% range so far... I'll have better numbers by week's end when I can replicate the exact commute.

I should say I do not care or iota about the range loss, it was expected... On my previous Egolf (2016_ I put in sticky tires on the stock wheels and lost 10-15% range already, and some responsiveness on take off... so I'm not surprised here, the light wheel combo helped preserve responsiveness but I'm still eating humble pie on range. Don't care ;-) But it's good info, I think.. Seems like non-green tire kills range way more than tire size in the end.

 

[JoulesThief]

I wonder what that 15 to 20% loss of range does to the warranty on your battery. VW would probably void it, cause it beats the sh i t 20% more than your already spirited driving does. Kind of like a power user with an Apple I-Phone that wonders why their smart phone battery is dead in 18 months.

 

[Deschodt]

You asked the same question when I put sticky tires on the 2016. There were zero issues under warranty and zero issues upon return, and the car was accepted with the replacement non-eco tires... The person who took the car back told me they did not care what tire was on the car as long as it was the same size and with tread, said ecopias are good for range but not a requirement.

So as far as I know VW doesn't care. I imagine if you thought you were getting a battery warranty issue, you couldd reinstall the stock wheels/tires and look innocent - they have no way of telling what wheel/rubber you run, lower range could be ascribed to a heavy foot or usage of all the doodads (wipers, heated seats, etc)...

 

[JoulesThief]

You asked the same question when I put sticky tires on the 2016. There were zero issues under warranty and zero issues upon return, and the car was accepted with the replacement non-eco tires... The person who took the car back told me they did not care what tire was on the car as long as it was the same size and with tread, said ecopias are good for range but not a requirement.

So as far as I know VW doesn't care. I imagine if you thought you were getting a battery warranty issue, you couldd reinstall the stock wheels/tires and look innocent - they have no way of telling what wheel/rubber you run, lower range could be ascribed to a heavy foot or usage of all the doodads (wipers, heated seats, etc)...

You do know VW puts a black box in every one of their vehicles. Pretty much logs everything you do, parameter wise.

 

[Deschodt]

No I don't know about the black box but I'll tell you it is impossible for a black box to know I changed from a 16" wheel to a 18" wheel, there's no sensor attached to the wheel, best it can do is measure effort at the motor (which can be attributed to stickier rubber) or do a wheel rotation vs speed measurement which only gives them a wheel+ tire diameter (which is damn near identical overall), again at best they can guess you may have changed tires at some point , if they cared... The dealership made clear to me they don't give a fig.

Anyway it's all moot because it's relatively insignificant per my latest checks...

So my average miles per kw for the past 2000 miles on the craptastic 16" astanas+ecopias was 3.6 (I bet some of you just choked at that). That's using the car "normally", AC, heat, defrost, seat warmers, and driving like I stole it, with steep hills too.

My morning commute is faster and cold (early AM, 80+ freeway, then emptier city, heater, defroster, heated seats on) = 3.0 mi per kw
My return commute is slower and busier, but no AC in general: 3.8 mi/kw
My new commute average is now 3.3 overall, vs the 3.6 before... So the loss is actually less than 10% which IMO is minimal vs the benefits in handling overall. I really think the lightweight wheels helped a lot - people who just plugged GTI wheels (25lbs each) reported more losses.

What is obvious is that the bigger tire footprint + non aero wheels are at more of a disadvantage at freeway speeds than at slower speeds... So if you do 80 miles of FWY per day you are looking closer to a 20% loss with 18" wheels... If you do city only probably less than 10% overall, almost negligible..
For my average I'm happy... Mostly because the E-golf has that dual personality, it scoots from a stop like a sports car, but corners like a horse carriage. Now it's more homogeneous... Probably talking to the wrong crowd but this is the performance egolf thread ;-)

 

[mpulsiv]

You do know VW puts a black box in every one of their vehicles. Pretty much logs everything you do, parameter wise.

Why are you lurking around on "Build Thread: Performance e-Golf" thread? Aren't you supposed to be drafting behind big trucks on the boulevard at 6.5 kWh, below the speed limit? Not everyone wants to collide into your driving habits. Many of us love to spin tires, rail corners, upgrade the suspension. God forbid, anyone replace Ecopia EP422 PLUS. Nazi is coming after us because we replace wheels and tires. Germans are going to void the warranty for spirited drivers that average 3 kWh :shock:

 

[Spektre]

Not singling anyone out, but here's a quick tip: when an irritating poster is constantly interrupting your thread, or really any thread, click on their name and select "Add Foe".

It really will improve your quality of life. The only time you have to read their drivel is when someone else quotes them, then you can remind that person how to do this.

The only way to get rid of trolls is to stop feeding them!

 

[JoulesThief]

Not singling anyone out, but here's a quick tip: when an irritating poster is constantly interrupting your thread, or really any thread, click on their name and select "Add Foe".

It really will improve your quality of life. The only time you have to read their drivel is when someone else quotes them, then you can remind that person how to do this.

The only way to get rid of trolls is to stop feeding them!

I might consider some performance tires upgrades for my Ecopias, provided they provide more miles per kWh than the stock tires.

 

[Jerkstore]

Bringing this thread back, finally got around to installing H&R springs this week. Install was pretty straight forward, but I definitely have some suggestions if anyone is looking to do this install themselves. Ride quality feels about the same when hitting bumps and dips in the road on stock wheels. I don’t feel like I’m sacrificing comfort at all, but haven’t driven much so far. New wheels and tires should be coming this week, I’m following zanzabar’s lead and going with the Konig runlite in 16”(I wanted 17s but there aren’t any in the US).