2016 SE e-golf: 4 hours of charge time or not?

[samuelgoto]

Hey all,

I just recently purchased an e-golf 2016 SE and I'm getting some inconsistent information here. Kicking off this thread to try to see if I can get a clearer idea of my charge time.

On the car paperwork it says two things: 3.6 KW on-board charger AND 3.7 hours of charging time at 240V. Aren't these inconsistent things?

That is, according to this thread [1], at 3.6 KW and 240V, that would lead to a 8 hour charging time (not 4 hours as advertised).

According to (a) the paperwork, (b) my owner's manual, (c) the dealership advertisement and (d) the dealership salesperson, I would indeed get a 4 hour full charge.

It just took about 16-18 hours to fully re-charge from 0 at a standard 110V outlet (which agrees with the owner's manual -- which makes me believe I could potentially get a 4 hours charge).

I noticed there is a "DC Quick Charger" package available for the SEs which would give me the 7.2 KW onboard charger, but it doesn't say anywhere I bought these or not.

I'm considering calling the dealership to clarify things, but wanted to get my facts straight before bargaining.

So, is actually possible I will get a 4 hour charger at 240V with a 3.2 KW on-board charger, or is there something broken in my owner manual?

Sam

PS I'm in mountain view, CA - bought my e-golf in San Jose.

[1] http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=518

 

[DepletedZPM]

On the car paperwork it says two things: 3.6 KW on-board charger AND 3.7 hours of charging time at 240V. Aren't these inconsistent things?

I agree with you.

It's clear to me that VW is not proof-reading all of their documents for consistency. I have the fast charging option on my 2016 SE, and the window sticker showed "DC Fast Charging Package" (i.e., 7.2 kW + fast DC). The sticker also said "3.6 kW onboard charger." The folks at the dealership scrambled a little to confirm that the "3.6" was bogus.

I haven't installed a home Level 2 charger yet, but a 6.6 kW ChargePoint station was delivering a steady 6 kW, consistent with the fast charge option and contrary to having a 3.6 kW input). Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but you can repeat my experiment by trying a public 6.6 kW level 2 station to see if you get around 6 kW coming in.

(Hmm, are there public level 2 chargers rated at 7.2 kW or higher? Still learning.)

That is, according to this thread [1], at 3.6 KW and 240V, that would lead to a 8 hour charging time (not 4 hours as advertised).

Again, I agree with you.

According to (a) the paperwork, (b) my owner's manual, (c) the dealership advertisement and (d) the dealership salesperson, I would indeed get a 4 hour full charge.

It sounds to me like the dealership folks are either mistaken or misleading.

 

[Cclcal]

From the info I've gathered the SE can only go max of 3.6 without the 7.2 fast charger option which is a 1750$ factory option.
So fastest from 0 to full charge would be about 8 hours since it's a 24kWh battery.

And you are correct, about 20 hours on a 110 outlet.

Most sales have no idea when I inquire about how long it takes to charge a SE on a supercharger.

Some didn't even know he diff between SE and SEL charging ports.

Hope this helps

 

[samuelgoto]

I don't see anything abou the extra 7.2 kw quick charge package.

However, it does say 3.7 hours in the dealership window sticker. I just leased it recently, would anyone know if I could call this a "misleading sale" and have it returned/changed? Or is that just crazy talk given that everything was probably already sent to the DMV?

Good idea on the trying with a public charging station, I'll give that a try and report back.

Just checking: the fact that my car charged in 16 hours at a 110v doesn't say anything about the onboard charger? Or do both 3.6 and 7.2 charge in the same amount of time connected to a 110v?

Would anyone know if there is a reliable way to check if my onboard charger is a 3.6 or a 7.2? E.g. any sign in the dashboard that I could be looking at? Any info in the owners manual?

Thanks all, Sam

 

[JoulesThief]

I don't see anything abou the extra 7.2 kw quick charge package.

However, it does say 3.7 hours in the dealership window sticker. I just leased it recently, would anyone know if I could call this a "misleading sale" and have it returned/changed? Or is that just crazy talk given that everything was probably already sent to the DMV?

Good idea on the trying with a public charging station, I'll give that a try and report back.

Just checking: the fact that my car charged in 16 hours at a 110v doesn't say anything about the onboard charger? Or do both 3.6 and 7.2 charge in the same amount of time connected to a 110v?

Would anyone know if there is a reliable way to check if my onboard charger is a 3.6 or a 7.2? E.g. any sign in the dashboard that I could be looking at? Any info in the owners manual?

Thanks all, Sam

If the Maroni sticker says you have a 3.6 kwh charger, then you got a 3.6 kwh charger with your 2016 SE.
When charging with a 1.2kwh 120V EVSE, the 120V EVSE is the limiting factor for your charge rate. If you get a level 2 240V EVSE capable of anything over 15 amp charge rate, your 3.6 kwh charger on board is now the limiting factor on the charge rate.

Or look at your charge port and see what it looks like. If it has a cover that you pull off and 2 fat contact pins are there, you have the 7.3 kwh level 2 charger on board, and the DC quickcharger connections, the good stuff.

http://longtailpipe.com/ebooks/green-transportation-guide-buying-owning-charging-plug-in-vehicles-of-all-kinds/electric-car-charging-advice-systems/ev-dc-fast-charging-standards-chademo-ccs-sae-combo-tesla-supercharger-etc/

 

[DepletedZPM]

I don't see anything abou the extra 7.2 kw quick charge package.

Then you don't have it. And that will eat your time and money on a public charger if it counts based on time. E.g., for $1/hr, you'll be paying around $0.30/kWh vs. $0.17/kWh @ 6 kW.

However, it does say 3.7 hours in the dealership window sticker. I just leased it recently, would anyone know if I could call this a "misleading sale" and have it returned/changed? Or is that just crazy talk given that everything was probably already sent to the DMV?

If you have retained that sticker as hard documentation, maybe you have a chance of getting some settlement. If having the faster charging is indispensable to you, an experienced consumer advocate could be helpful.

FWIW, the window sticker ("Monroney sticker") for mine does not specify the time to charge, so I am guessing that the sticker you speak of may have been something else that the dealer added for display. I would think they could be held responsible for misrepresentation in this case.

Good idea on the trying with a public charging station, I'll give that a try and report back.

If the "DC Fast Charging Package" wasn't listed, this is a sucker bet. But you can tell right away on a ChargePoint station, and it shouldn't cost much, unless the station owner has set unusually high rates.

[Edit: fixed the spelling of "Monroney".]

 

[RonDawg]

Whoever does the owners manuals at VW, or at least VWoA, are horrible proofreaders. I don't know about the ones for the 2016 models, but the 2015 manuals are full of errors. Despite the cover of the main manual saying "eGolf US Edition Model Year 2015" it's clearly a cut-and-paste effort from the manuals for ICE versions of the car. It describes or includes pictures of features not available on US eGolfs (if not EU ones as well) including a manual parking brake (page 13), a spare tire (page 175), manual HVAC control (page 287), and a sunroof (page 60).

Page 59 of the 2015 manual for the nav/stereo system mentions switching off "foam control." As I wondered if my eGolf had some sort of previously unknown feature whereby it self-shampoos the carpet and upholstery, I realized it was supposed to say PHONE control.

Apparently the same person(s) responsible for writing these manuals was/were put in charge of writing the Monroney sticker as well. So much for that German reputation for attention to detail.

 

[RonDawg]

FWIW, the window sticker ("Moroney sticker") for mine does not specify the time to charge, so I am guessing that the sticker you speak of may have been something else that the dealer added for display. I would think they could be held responsible for misrepresentation in this case.

At least one other person has posted here about this. So it could be that the sticker on your car was corrected by the time it was printed.

 

[RichV]

The Monroney sticker on our 2016 e-Golf SE states 3.7hour charge time as well; which is misleading at best. I have yet to be able to successfully use a Level 2 charger on the car and it is being looked at by the dealer as I type this.

 

[bizzle]

The Monroney sticker on our 2016 e-Golf SE states 3.7hour charge time as well; which is misleading at best. I have yet to be able to successfully use a Level 2 charger on the car and it is being looked at by the dealer as I type this.

What issue are they looking into? Are they under the impression it should charge in under 4 hours?

 

[RichV]

The Monroney sticker on our 2016 e-Golf SE states 3.7hour charge time as well; which is misleading at best. I have yet to be able to successfully use a Level 2 charger on the car and it is being looked at by the dealer as I type this.

What issue are they looking into? Are they under the impression it should charge in under 4 hours?

It currently fails to charge with any L2 charger resulting in an electrical system failure warning.

 

[forbin404]

The Monroney sticker on our 2016 e-Golf SE states 3.7hour charge time as well; which is misleading at best. I have yet to be able to successfully use a Level 2 charger on the car and it is being looked at by the dealer as I type this.

What issue are they looking into? Are they under the impression it should charge in under 4 hours?

That's salesman speak for 'who cares'

 

[SDegolf]

Please reference this post for charging times. I just posted it.

http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=717

The short answer is the SE needs about 7.6 hours for a 100% charge at Level 2.

 

[VWeGolf84]

I am in the same boat as you. I recently purchased a 2016 SE model from Huntington and the sales guy assured me that there were no charging difference between the 2 trim levels. So, when I plugged it into a chargepoint station I quickly realized that I don't have a 7.2kwh charger. I looked at my sticker and it does say 3.7hour charge... wtf? Sounds like there is no way you can charge your battery in 3.7hours on a 240V line.

 

[forbin404]

I am in the same boat as you. I recently purchased a 2016 SE model from Huntington and the sales guy assured me that there were no charging difference between the 2 trim levels. So, when I plugged it into a chargepoint station I quickly realized that I don't have a 7.2kwh charger. I looked at my sticker and it does say 3.7hour charge... wtf? Sounds like there is no way you can charge your battery in 3.7hours on a 240V line.

Sounds like we have a bit of a class action about to happen.

 

[nswartzb]

not sure people will have much luck with a class action if the window sticker is accurate in saying that th4 2016 SE fully charges in ~7.6 hrs at 240v. (According to another thread, which says "slow example - Public Station with e-Golf SE: 208VAC * 16 amps / 1000 * 85% = 2.83kW 4mi/kWh * 2.83kW = 11.32 mi/hr," it sounds like such a window sticker is accurate.) if relying on what an individual dealer said to you (eg no difference between 2016 SE and SEL charging), then you can sue, but you'll likely be on your own and not in a class action.

on the other hand, if other window sticker (eg an older version) says something about charging that is not accurate (eg fully charge in ~3.8 hrs at 240v), then maybe there are grounds for a class action.

 

[forbin404]

not sure people will have much luck with a class action if the window sticker is accurate in saying that th4 2016 SE fully charges in ~7.6 hrs at 240v. (According to another thread, which says "slow example - Public Station with e-Golf SE: 208VAC * 16 amps / 1000 * 85% = 2.83kW 4mi/kWh * 2.83kW = 11.32 mi/hr," it sounds like such a window sticker is accurate.) if relying on what an individual dealer said to you (eg no difference between 2016 SE and SEL charging), then you can sue, but you'll likely be on your own and not in a class action.

on the other hand, if other window sticker (eg an older version) says something about charging that is not accurate (eg fully charge in ~3.8 hrs at 240v), then maybe there are grounds for a class action.

You know with all this talk of KWH

I just tested my car

It says
39 miles / 3.5 miles/kwh
That's 11.14kwh used

However my chargepoint says
12.683kwh charged

So that's really 3.07 miles / kwh.
That's a 12% loss compared to the VW screen.

Is the screen lying? Is chargepoint overcharging me (Which makes no sense as they bill by the minute).

 

[bizzle]

not sure people will have much luck with a class action if the window sticker is accurate in saying that th4 2016 SE fully charges in ~7.6 hrs at 240v. (According to another thread, which says "slow example - Public Station with e-Golf SE: 208VAC * 16 amps / 1000 * 85% = 2.83kW 4mi/kWh * 2.83kW = 11.32 mi/hr," it sounds like such a window sticker is accurate.) if relying on what an individual dealer said to you (eg no difference between 2016 SE and SEL charging), then you can sue, but you'll likely be on your own and not in a class action.

on the other hand, if other window sticker (eg an older version) says something about charging that is not accurate (eg fully charge in ~3.8 hrs at 240v), then maybe there are grounds for a class action.

You know with all this talk of KWH

I just tested my car

It says
39 miles / 3.5 miles/kwh
That's 11.14kwh used

However my chargepoint says
12.683kwh charged

So that's really 3.07 miles / kwh.
That's a 12% loss compared to the VW screen.

Is the screen lying? Is chargepoint overcharging me (Which makes no sense as they bill by the minute).

Chargepoint is counting how much juice it sends you, which is more than the pack needs due to losses along the way.

 

[RonDawg]

You know with all this talk of KWH

I just tested my car

It says
39 miles / 3.5 miles/kwh
That's 11.14kwh used

However my chargepoint says
12.683kwh charged

So that's really 3.07 miles / kwh.
That's a 12% loss compared to the VW screen.

Is the screen lying? Is chargepoint overcharging me (Which makes no sense as they bill by the minute).

Chargepoint is counting how much juice it sends you, which is more than the pack needs due to losses along the way.

This. During charging, the cooling system for the on board charger, and related electronics, are all operating and thus will use a bit of that electricity.

 

[forbin404]

You know with all this talk of KWH

Is the screen lying? Is chargepoint overcharging me (Which makes no sense as they bill by the minute).

Chargepoint is counting how much juice it sends you, which is more than the pack needs due to losses along the way.

This. During charging, the cooling system for the on board charger, and related electronics, are all operating and thus will use a bit of that electricity.

Don't you think that a 12% variance is quite a large amount when telling you that you are getting 3.5 MP/kwh when it's really 3.07?