TDI to e-Golf?

[slk23]

Has anyone here gone from VW TDI to an e-Golf? How was the transition? What do you miss about the TDI, what are you happy to have left behind, and what has surprised you with the e-Golf?

I drive a 2010 Mk6 Golf TDI and enjoy the torque, overall refinement (for an ICE), ability to use renewable fuel, and 600+ mile range. When I test drove a 2017 e-Golf I appreciated the smooth and effortless acceleration, quietness (although it wasn't much quieter than my 2010 on the freeway), and the fun of working the regen to increase efficiency.

If I get an e-Golf it'll be my only car and I'll sell the TDI back to VW. 99% of my driving is within a 30 mile radius and I can rent a car for the 1x/year >200 mile trips. I've been debating the pros and cons for months (years?) but I'm still on the fence. Having local access to renewable diesel complicates the decision since it brings the TDI's CO2 output down to close to an EV.

Now that I've written this I realize my questions are more about living with a 125 mile EV as an only car. Although I rarely venture out of my local area I still have an irrational fear of not being able to hit the open highway due to limited range and charging infrastructure.

 

[flyboy320]

I just sold my 2012 TDI Golf back to VW two weeks ago and I'm now in a 2018 e-Golf. I can honestly say the only thing I miss about the TDI is the range. I'm like you, if I need something to go farther in once or twice a year I'll rent. Don't waste your money on a feature of a car you'll only use 5% or less of the time, so in the few times a year you'll need something your car doesn't have (range, 3rd row seating, towing, etc.), just rent. I was concerned owning the TDI and it's complicated emission system long term, to many potential things to go wrong. If you enjoy the torque of the TDI, you'll love it even more on the e-Golf because it's instant, I always hated the lag of the engine when stomping on the accelerator when the engine was turning over at 1200rpm, it always took so long to downshift and rev up.

For my drive to work it cost me about $7 in diesel return, and in the e-Golf it costs about $1.40 in electricity (and I can occasionally plug in at work), so a substantial savings over the long run, something you have to calculate into your long term cost of ownership.

 

[RonDawg]

Will you be able to charge at home? For folks who will be buying an EV, especially as their only car, being able to charge at home is a MUST. You CANNOT rely on public charging stations as your primary charging source, as too many things can go wrong: occupied, broken, or ICE'd (occupied by a non-EV).

If 99% of your driving will be within 30 miles of home, you can get away with charging at 120 volts (Level 1 charging). Just make sure you plug in every night, as it takes a LONG time to charge at that rate. So don't wait until the needle is in the red zone before recharging, as it will take over a day to fully recharge: at 120 volts, you basically get 1 kWh of recharge for every hour plugged in. So the 2017 eGolf's 35.8 kWH battery would need almost 36 hours to fully charge at 120 volts from fully depleted. Assuming you can average 5 miles per kWH of "fuel" economy, your 30 mile daily usage will use up 6 kWH of battery, and at 120 volts would require a 6 hour recharge to replenish. Many of us believe that frequent, but shallow, charge cycles are easier on the battery than infrequent, but longer, charging cycles, i.e. putting in 6 kWH every day is less stressful to the battery than 30 kWH every 5 days.

If you are able to install a Level 2 (240 volt) charging station, the flexibility on car use and recharging increases. Still, as your only car, I would highly recommend getting one with the DCFC, or Quick Charge, port. It's standard on the SEL and an option on the SE. I would only recommend a non-DCFC SE model if there are no QC stations within the car's one-way driving range in your area, and don't expect any in the near future. Check PlugShare.com, set the filters for "J1772" (L1 and L2, almost always the latter) and "CCS/SAE" (DCFC) to see what public charging infrastructure is in your area.

If you're wondering how your local utility's electrical generation compares to renewable (I'm assuming bio-) diesel, here's a couple of places to check. This first link is the EPA's own website showing the breakdown in various electricity generation methods for your area: https://oaspub.epa.gov/powpro/ept_pack.charts

This next one, which EV enthusiasts often show to dispel the myth of transferring emissions from tailpipe to smokestack, show how much MPG you need from a gasoline car to offset the pollution from electricity generation needed to power an EV: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner Below is the chart from that website for ease of discussion:

As you can see, there's only a few areas where a high-MPG, non-hybrid gasoline car is more "clean" than an EV. In a few others you can achieve that with something like a Prius, but in many areas it's impossible to achieve the necessary MPG's even with a diesel.

 

[slk23]

Thank you flyboy320 and RonDawg for the informative replies.

I always hated the lag of the engine when stomping on the accelerator when the engine was turning over at 1200rpm, it always took so long to downshift and rev up

The TDI turbo lag can be frustrating at times but I think less so with a manual transmission (my Golf). In a weird way I sort of enjoy how the TDI requires anticipating power changes; it feels a bit like driving a locomotive at times. That said, the e-Golf's responsiveness is even more fun and combined with the regen it's a very engaging driving experience.

Will you be able to charge at home? For folks who will be buying an EV, especially as their only car, being able to charge at home is a MUST

Good question. I will be able to charge at home and plan to install a 240V EVSE. However, my garage is tiny (1920s house), full of stuff, and the driveway is steep. I can park there for charging but it's not convenient as a daily routine since the angle makes it hard to open the doors and my large dog doesn't seem to like jumping in/out on the slope. Since my typical driving patterns include 5-15 miles (round trip) per day and 25-65 miles on weekend days my plan is to park on the driveway ~2x/week for charging.

The renewable diesel I've been using is made by Neste and sold here in California by Propel Fuels. It's 98% renewable but not called bio-diesel since it's made with a different process. According to my calculations my TDI is responsible for 96 grams/mile of CO2 @ 35 MPG compared to 65 grams/mile for an EV @ 250 Wh/mile and charged from the grid in my area. But of course the TDI contributes much more particulates and NOx.

 

[RonDawg]

Will you be able to charge at home? For folks who will be buying an EV, especially as their only car, being able to charge at home is a MUST

Good question. I will be able to charge at home and plan to install a 240V EVSE. However, my garage is tiny (1920s house), full of stuff, and the driveway is steep. I can park there for charging but it's not convenient as a daily routine since the angle makes it hard to open the doors and my large dog doesn't seem to like jumping in/out on the slope. Since my typical driving patterns include 5-15 miles (round trip) per day and 25-65 miles on weekend days my plan is to park on the driveway ~2x/week for charging.

Many if not most EVSE's are weatherproof and can be mounted outdoors, even not next to the garage if necessary. If you're concerned about exposure, things people have done including building a "birdhouse" for the EVSE, or mounting inside near the front door and running the cable beneath a door (make sure the door doesn't pinch the cable) or through a hole in the wall with a lockable door. It's no problem plugging the charging handle from the EVSE to the car in the rain (it's designed for that specifically).

With a 1920's house, unless you know the wiring is recent (say within the last 25 years), don't plug an electric car in without getting a consultation from a qualified electrician. It's the equivalent of running a hair dryer or space heater full blast for many, many hours continuously, so the wiring and outlets must be robust and not shared with anything else.

 

[seacycle]

The buyback offer on my 2014 TDI was darn close to the original purchase price, so turning it in was a simple choice. It took forever, it seems, but I finally got my hands on a 2017 SEL with DAP that wasn't white or black.

I find the e-Golf better in almost every way. The things that are not better, in order of how much they impact the experience:

- The Mk7 has a “gas” pedal hinged from the firewall (like the brake) instead of on the floor hinged on the bottom. You know, like a human foot is hinged. After 3000 miles in the e-Golf, I still find this irritating.
- My TDI had “sport” seats that I found a bit more comfortable.
- Range

That is really about it. The most I drive in a day is about 100 miles mostly urban (Seattle), and usually much less. I think my only mid-day charge was driving it up from Portland when I first got it. I normally cap the charging at 80%, only going higher if I need to for the day’s trip.

 

[slk23]

I got my e-Golf SEL yesterday and so far it’s fantastic… such a smooth, effortless drive.

Were you able to get a good price on your SEL w/DAP? The only ones in the San Francisco area weren’t being discounted much.

 

[MattinAkron]

I'd say go for it. I drive 68mi r/t daily, and charge my 2017 SEL only at work with a 16A/120V EVSE I bought on amazon ($200) on an outlet in our parking garage. At 16 amps, I'm able to draw about 1.4kW per hour, which is enough to make up my entire commute while at work. So my commute cost for fuel has gone to zero.

I would also so that the 125mi rated range is a "worst case" range. I was able to get 125mi pretty easy in the colder months. The other day I intentionally skipped work charging and made a few other trips and was able to travel 157mi before charging. I still had 7mi indicated remaining.

We've owned several TDIs, and I would say the e-Golf is superior in every single way - save for a long trip that exceeds the 125-150mi range. Do it.

 

[JoulesThief]

I'd say go for it. I drive 68mi r/t daily, and charge my 2017 SEL only at work with a 16A/120V EVSE I bought on amazon ($200) on an outlet in our parking garage. At 16 amps, I'm able to draw about 1.4kW per hour, which is enough to make up my entire commute while at work. So my commute cost for fuel has gone to zero.

I would also so that the 125mi rated range is a "worst case" range. I was able to get 125mi pretty easy in the colder months. The other day I intentionally skipped work charging and made a few other trips and was able to travel 157mi before charging. I still had 7mi indicated remaining.

We've owned several TDIs, and I would say the e-Golf is superior in every single way - save for a long trip that exceeds the 125-150mi range. Do it.

Have a 2015 e-Golf SEL. It's nice, but it is in no way a comfortable car to drive extended distances. My 2015 Passat TDI SEL exceeds it in every single way. Comfort of drive, range, seat material (leather) and width of seats, sound system, HomeLink for opening the garage, Fender sound system, suspension and smoothness of drive. The e-Golf has a very hard, hard ride on city streets and over little pot holes on poorly surfaced or worn streets here in Los Angeles. Great if you want a young and sporty drive, or want to go fast through the turns... I'm an old man at 60, I'm at a point in life where I prefer comfort.

My e-Golf SEL is only suitable as a short range, short drive commuter. I could give it up easily and put it up for sale, and I wouldn't terribly miss it. Is it a fun car and a practical car? Yes. Would I feel like hell mooching electrons off of my boss or company that I work for? Hell yes to that too. You might get away with going from a TDI to an e-Golf if you are coming from a Golf or Jetta or Jetta Wagon TDI. Probably not if coming from a Passat, or Audi or Touareg TDI

2015 SEL for sale, White with tan interior, for sale to anyone that wants to make me an offer I can't refuse, 16,500 miles, title tree and clear. Private message me if you're interested.

 

[slk23]

After my first 500 miles driving the e-Golf only one thing was really bothering me in comparison with my 2010 Golf TDI: the steering lightness and tendency to wander in the lane a bit on the freeway. After a little research I found that there's a steering weight setting accessible with VCDS and OBDeleven. Changing it from Comfort to Dynamic has made a noticeable difference in city driving; today I'll see how it feels on the freeway.

Update: 45 miles on the freeway and I'm really happy with the steering weight now.

 

[mgrisham]

Went from 2013 Jetta TDI to 2017 e-Golf. Loved the Jetta, but it was a criminal. VW paid an amazing amount for its return. I spent a month or so looking for a new 2017 e-Golf, which we've had for a few weeks and 500+ miles. Very much like the Jetta: light, quick, nicely done and straight-forward interior and controls. So far, only downside is range.

 

[flyboy320]

After my first 500 miles driving the e-Golf only one thing was really bothering me in comparison with my 2010 Golf TDI: the steering lightness and tendency to wander in the lane a bit on the freeway. After a little research I found that there's a steering weight setting accessible with VCDS and OBDeleven. Changing it from Comfort to Dynamic has made a noticeable difference in city driving; today I'll see how it feels on the freeway.

Update: 45 miles on the freeway and I'm really happy with the steering weight now.

Can you tell me where this is using VCDS?

 

[Verkehr]

After my first 500 miles driving the e-Golf only one thing was really bothering me in comparison with my 2010 Golf TDI: the steering lightness and tendency to wander in the lane a bit on the freeway. After a little research I found that there's a steering weight setting accessible with VCDS and OBDeleven. Changing it from Comfort to Dynamic has made a noticeable difference in city driving; today I'll see how it feels on the freeway.

Update: 45 miles on the freeway and I'm really happy with the steering weight now.

This is a preference setting as I had a different experience: I liked the (heavy) steering feel on my old hydraulic rack-equipped sport package BMW but for me, switching this parameter didn't seem to add any feedback to the e-golf. Instead, I felt it exacerbated the numbness of the steering which otherwise might be mistaken for being hidden behind the power assist (i.e. attributed to a light grip on the wheel).

 

[slk23]

Another update after driving a few more hundred miles: the e-Golf isn't as centered and doesn't track quite as well as my Golf Mk. 6 TDI but it's not bad with the Dynamic steering setting. I'll miss the TDI but I wouldn't keep it without the emissions modification and I don't want to deal with the technical and reliability issues associated with that, even with the extended warranty.

Can you tell me where this is using VCDS?

Until I can connect VCDS again the best I can do is tell you to look in the Steering controller. There's a channel for 'steering curve' or something similar; that's where the Comfort and Dynamic choices are. Before you change it you'll have to enter the security code for the controller (code supplied by VCDS). By the way there's a also steering boost channel but no code is available to change that value.

 

[mpulsiv]

Many of us believe that frequent, but shallow, charge cycles are easier on the battery than infrequent, but longer, charging cycles, i.e. putting in 6 kWH every day is less stressful to the battery than 30 kWH every 5 days.

This is an interesting statement. I'd love to hear more as how daily top-off is easier on the battery. Based on discussions, I believe it's the opposite www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=877

In relevance, Tesla owners reported how to reset/refresh the battery. To put this into perspective, it performs like mechanical hard drive defragmentation. Apparently this reset/refresh method is quite effective. All you have to do it drain down to ~5 miles range and charge with L1, uninterrupted until 100%.

 

[f1geek]

This is not about belief. This is science. You can read numerous peer reviewed scientific papers that prove repeated 0 to 100% cycling of lithium ion batteries is the quickest way to make them degrade. If you want to lose capacity as fast as possible in your e-Golf, then please go ahead and fully cycle your battery pack. Yes, there is a top and bottom buffer, so you can’t really go from 0 to 100% in an e-Golf (want to guess why?), but you can get close enough to accelerate capacity loss, especially at high ambient temperatures. Again, this is chemistry and physics fact, not influenced by what you or anyone else believes. if you are able and willing, short cycling is the scientifically proven way to reduce the rate of degradation and maintain the range of the pack for much longer compared to full cycling.

 

[mpulsiv]

This is not about belief. This is science. You can read numerous peer reviewed scientific papers that prove repeated 0 to 100% cycling of lithium ion batteries is the quickest way to make them degrade. If you want to lose capacity as fast as possible in your e-Golf, then please go ahead and fully cycle your battery pack. Yes, there is a top and bottom buffer, so you can’t really go from 0 to 100% in an e-Golf (want to guess why?), but you can get close enough to accelerate capacity loss, especially at high ambient temperatures. Again, this is chemistry and physics fact, not influenced by what you or anyone else believes. if you are able and willing, short cycling is the scientifically proven way to reduce the rate of degradation and maintain the range of the pack for much longer compared to full cycling.

My ask was specifically about daily top off between 30% - 80%. Based on what I have read from different sources, it's better to keep charge cycles low. Please feel free to chime-in. I'm accelerating my learning curve

A) Charge every 3 days from 30% - 80%
B) Charge daily from 60% - 80%

 

[f1geek]

Ok. Good question. Yes, even if you keep the SoC in a low degradation range, cycling, over time, also leads to degradation, so cycle the pack less if you can. This is one reason why large battery packs will degrade less compared to small packs, given an identical driving pattern.

 

[miamor]

... Apparently this reset/refresh method is quite effective. All you have to do it drain down to ~5 miles range and charge with L1, uninterrupted until 100%.

I liked that defrag HDD animation! Anyhow is the above reset really true to get the Guess O Meter more accurate? I have driven car to show 1mi on GOM yet the recharge was with a public level II. It did not help getting the GOM to stop showing over 140 mi on new charge.

 

[f1geek]

I just recently saw 174 miles on GOM at 100% SoC (very briefly let it sit fully charged, but I needed the range) after lots of gentle low speed driving and 6 kW L2 charging. I suspect you drive faster in Normal mode with HVAC on. I usually drive VERY gently with no HVAC and use ECO mode. I doubt L2 or L1 charging has an impact on GOM or usable capacity of pack. Both L2 and L1 are low C rate charging and very gentle on electrodes. Theoretically L1 is gentler but I wonder if it would have any significant impact on GOM.