Lease Offer in MD

[bhan89]

I'm looking to lease a 2016 e-golf SE in MD. From asking different dealers in MD, the best offer I've been given is as follows:

$159/month, $0 down, 7,500 miles/year
$184/month, $0 down, 15,000 miles/year
$209/month, $0 down, 18,000 miles/year

Currently, with my car I drive a little under 20,000 miles/year, but I figure if I cut out all the long distance trips, I would be somewhere around the 15,000 - 18,000 mile range. How does this offer look? I'm also deciding if it's worth pulling the trigger on this deal or waiting for the 2017 model where the range should increase. I'm not in a hurry and wondering if the deals will be this good for the 2017 model.

Also, for SE owners, how much does the range decrease in the winter when temperatures drop to 20 degrees? Also, I heard the heating is a lot more efficient on the SEL, but is that worth the price difference. I couldn't find a good price for the SEL since most dealers were starting the monthly payments around $350/month, $0 down, $7,500 miles/year.

 

[JoulesThief]

That's not buying... it's renting, or leasing. Buying puts your name on the title, with no lien.

There is a very, very good reason why VW offers, usually, 7,500, 10,000 or at a max, 12,000 mile a year leases. It has to do with the battery and power train design limitations, I believe, not being designed with a MTBF of greater than those kind of miles per year, before the battery loses too much range..

It looks like you'll spend an inordinate amount of time tethered to an EVSE getting a charge, with the miles you accrue per year.

I'd look at something else, unless you can afford a Tesla, with the miles you drive per year. The amount of time you'll spend plugged in with become burdensome in an e-Golf.

 

[bhan89]

Oops I meant lease. Updated the post. I figured I could charge the car overnight, How long does the SE take to charge if I install a 240v charger at my house?

 

[bizzle]

Those numbers look to be about what everyone has historically been paying for their leases. Just make sure the $0 down includes not spending any "drive-off" fees. The dealerships like to quote "down" and "drive-off" payments separately rather than an out the door, money out of pocket amount that most people are asking when they say, "what do I have to put down?"

So just be aware that when you ask that question and you have in mind what is going to come out of your pocket before driving away, you have to be very clear or you'll wind up getting quoted $0 "down" but then of course you'll still end up owing drive-off "fees," which are technically not part of the "down" payment but owed before you get the keys.

So before you bother driving down to a lot make sure you are both on the same page with you coming in, signing some paperwork, and leaving with the keys for $159-$209 per month without spending another dime.


While I haven't driven in that cold of weather, I have driven in extreme heat and I would estimate that you should figure on losing as much as half your range in the winter. I also think the resistive heater in the SEL is going to make a huge difference on the range during the winter so if it's within your means that would be the model to lease. There are no significant upgrades due for 2017. A range increase isn't expected until model year 2018 and that's assuming the eGolf is still available in the US.

You'll be able to charge a completely drained SE model within 8 hours at 240v. If you get the 7.2KWh quick charge package you'll half that time. At your mileage expectations I would strongly advise opting for the quick charge package.

 

[forbin404]

Wow 184/m with 15k. I'm paying 206 with 10k

 

[bhan89]

Those numbers look to be about what everyone has historically been paying for their leases. Just make sure the $0 down includes not spending any "drive-off" fees. The dealerships like to quote "down" and "drive-off" payments separately rather than an out the door, money out of pocket amount that most people are asking when they say, "what do I have to put down?"

So just be aware that when you ask that question and you have in mind what is going to come out of your pocket before driving away, you have to be very clear or you'll wind up getting quoted $0 "down" but then of course you'll still end up owing drive-off "fees," which are technically not part of the "down" payment but owed before you get the keys.

So before you bother driving down to a lot make sure you are both on the same page with you coming in, signing some paperwork, and leaving with the keys for $159-$209 per month without spending another dime.


While I haven't driven in that cold of weather, I have driven in extreme heat and I would estimate that you should figure on losing as much as half your range in the winter. I also think the resistive heater in the SEL is going to make a huge difference on the range during the winter so if it's within your means that would be the model to lease. There are no significant upgrades due for 2017. A range increase isn't expected until model year 2018 and that's assuming the eGolf is still available in the US.

You'll be able to charge a completely drained SE model within 8 hours at 240v. If you get the 7.2KWh quick charge package you'll half that time. At your mileage expectations I would strongly advise opting for the quick charge package.

Yea definitely going to get the quick charge package. Does the car only come with a standard 120v charger? If I were to get a 240v charger, would I only need a 240v electrical socket or would I need to a separate charger?

 

[miimura]

Yea definitely going to get the quick charge package. Does the car only come with a standard 120v charger? If I were to get a 240v charger, would I only need a 240v electrical socket or would I need to a separate charger?

The car comes with the 120V charging cord that plugs into regular 3-prong household outlets. It takes 18+ hours to fill from empty. If you want to charge faster you have to buy an EVSE, commonly called a charging station. Most are wall mounted. At the very top of this forum there is a button "Compare EV Chargers" that lists a whole bunch of these units. Some plug in and some are hard wired. You will probably need to have an electrician install a new dedicated circuit for any of these 240V units unless you have an existing circuit that was previously used for an air compressor or welder or kiln or other high power equipment.

 

[JoulesThief]

If Bizzle states up to half the range lost in the winter time, the car is rated at 83 miles on a charge, when new. Half of that would be 41.5 miles, in cold or severe weather. Can you make it to work and home in 41.5 miles, without any stops anywhere else, on the way home? Assume you work 250 days a year. 18,000 miles / 250 work days is about 72 miles a day, round trip, before you get home to recharge. Add in losses from rain, snow, cold weather, seat heater, heated windshield, heated mirrors, resistive heater in the SE, and you aren't going to make it.

Figure out accurately your needs before you go forward with this, rather than being sorry you did the deal. I don't see how it's possible, but only you know your operating circumstances. For me, the miles traveled on a short range electric car don't work out for you. Your needs tend to indicate an electric car with greater range. Maybe a BMW i3 Rex is a better choice?

Major point, VW recommends using the DC quick rechargers "sparingly". They also recommend that a quick charge has to be followed by an onboard AC charger recharge, to properly " balance charge" all the cells in the battery pack. That means no back to back DC quick charges, it voids the warranty. The battery chemistry is really not designed, nor engineered, nor cooled, at all, for quick recharging capabilities. VW offers it as a "feature" but hopes the owner reads the owners manual and follows the instructions to avoid the warranty being voided, which, knowing VW, they will be quick to do. VW logs all your recharges in memory. They will have a record of it. Your GPS tracks where you are at all times, and for how long... Big Brother is watching you, via Volkswagen Car-net.

 

[bhan89]

Depending on which location I work, my round trip commute will be 30 miles or 55 miles. I figured if the weather affects the range significantly, I can drive my wife's car and she can drive the egolf since her commutes will be shorter than mine.

Also, my mileage includes the different driving I will during the weekends. I figured the 18,000 mile/year will keep me under the mileage limit safely. In addition, there's a lot of chargers around the area I live.

 

[bhan89]

Those numbers look to be about what everyone has historically been paying for their leases. Just make sure the $0 down includes not spending any "drive-off" fees. The dealerships like to quote "down" and "drive-off" payments separately rather than an out the door, money out of pocket amount that most people are asking when they say, "what do I have to put down?"

So just be aware that when you ask that question and you have in mind what is going to come out of your pocket before driving away, you have to be very clear or you'll wind up getting quoted $0 "down" but then of course you'll still end up owing drive-off "fees," which are technically not part of the "down" payment but owed before you get the keys.

So before you bother driving down to a lot make sure you are both on the same page with you coming in, signing some paperwork, and leaving with the keys for $159-$209 per month without spending another dime.


While I haven't driven in that cold of weather, I have driven in extreme heat and I would estimate that you should figure on losing as much as half your range in the winter. I also think the resistive heater in the SEL is going to make a huge difference on the range during the winter so if it's within your means that would be the model to lease. There are no significant upgrades due for 2017. A range increase isn't expected until model year 2018 and that's assuming the eGolf is still available in the US.

You'll be able to charge a completely drained SE model within 8 hours at 240v. If you get the 7.2KWh quick charge package you'll half that time. At your mileage expectations I would strongly advise opting for the quick charge package.

Dealer gave me breakdown of the additional taxes and fees:

Freight: $820
Processing: $300
Tax: ~$1,100
Tags: $285
Acquisition: $625

Is there anything I can negotiate in there other than negotiating the selling price?

 

[JoulesThief]

Depending on which location I work, my round trip commute will be 30 miles or 55 miles. I figured if the weather affects the range significantly, I can drive my wife's car and she can drive the egolf since her commutes will be shorter than mine.

Also, my mileage includes the different driving I will during the weekends. I figured the 18,000 mile/year will keep me under the mileage limit safely. In addition, there's a lot of chargers around the area I live.

Don't count on owning an e-Golf and mooching electrons. You'll need a dedicated 240V 50 amp circuit with a NEMA 50 amp outlet added to your garage, plus a $550 to $700 EVSE recharging unit to plug in to the NEMA 14-50 outlet, to charge up your car overnight. Figure $1000 to $1500 to add those improvements to your home or residence. You should install these BEFORE you bring your e-Golf home.

Filling up an electric is not at all like an ICE car. Your car gets tethered to your home, just like your smart phone does. Public chargers are either full, or expensive per kwh, or often broken, poorly maintained, with no reduncancy, and undependable when you need them most. Don't count on them.

Freight, to me, indicates you are in a state that doesn't sell e-Golfs. How will you get it serviced, when local technicians aren't trained in service on your car, if something goes bad under warranty (and it is a volkswagen).

 

[bhan89]

Depending on which location I work, my round trip commute will be 30 miles or 55 miles. I figured if the weather affects the range significantly, I can drive my wife's car and she can drive the egolf since her commutes will be shorter than mine.

Also, my mileage includes the different driving I will during the weekends. I figured the 18,000 mile/year will keep me under the mileage limit safely. In addition, there's a lot of chargers around the area I live.

Don't count on owning an e-Golf and mooching electrons. You'll need a dedicated 240V 50 amp circuit with a NEMA 50 amp outlet added to your garage, plus a $550 to $700 EVSE recharging unit to plug in to the NEMA 14-50 outlet, to charge up your car overnight. Figure $1000 to $1500 to add those improvements to your home or residence. You should install these BEFORE you bring your e-Golf home.

Filling up an electric is not at all like an ICE car. Your car gets tethered to your home, just like your smart phone does. Public chargers are either full, or expensive per kwh, or often broken, poorly maintained, with no reduncancy, and undependable when you need them most. Don't count on them.

Yup was planning on installing the EV charger in my house. Luckily with the federal tax credit (30%) and MD tax credit (50%), 80% of the installation+charger costs will be refunded. I did some research and am leaning towards getting the JuiceBox. I looked at the prices on Amazon and if I were to install the JuiceBox Pro 40A WiFi and use Amazon Local Services, it comes to a little more than a $1000 (basically will be $200 if I get all the tax credits). Since the federal tax credit expires at the end of the year, I'm trying to get this all done before the end of the year.

 

[bizzle]

If those $3,000+ in fees comprise "drive-off fees" that you have to pay out of pocket, that's what I was talking about when I describing the difference between those and a "down payment."

When I got my lease I did not pay anything, not one penny, on the day I took the keys. I signed paperwork and drove away. The deal was for 10K miles, extended damage warranty for around $600, SE w/o DCFC package, and residual is 11K for ~$199 before taxes. All of those things are negotiable but they get added to the monthly payments. You have to divide that $3K by 35 payments and calculate it if it's not already included in the payments you posted.

 

[JoulesThief]

Depending on which location I work, my round trip commute will be 30 miles or 55 miles. I figured if the weather affects the range significantly, I can drive my wife's car and she can drive the egolf since her commutes will be shorter than mine.

Also, my mileage includes the different driving I will during the weekends. I figured the 18,000 mile/year will keep me under the mileage limit safely. In addition, there's a lot of chargers around the area I live.

Don't count on owning an e-Golf and mooching electrons. You'll need a dedicated 240V 50 amp circuit with a NEMA 50 amp outlet added to your garage, plus a $550 to $700 EVSE recharging unit to plug in to the NEMA 14-50 outlet, to charge up your car overnight. Figure $1000 to $1500 to add those improvements to your home or residence. You should install these BEFORE you bring your e-Golf home.

Filling up an electric is not at all like an ICE car. Your car gets tethered to your home, just like your smart phone does. Public chargers are either full, or expensive per kwh, or often broken, poorly maintained, with no reduncancy, and undependable when you need them most. Don't count on them.

Yup was planning on installing the EV charger in my house. Luckily with the federal tax credit (30%) and MD tax credit (50%), 80% of the installation+charger costs will be refunded. I did some research and am leaning towards getting the JuiceBox. I looked at the prices on Amazon and if I were to install the JuiceBox Pro 40A WiFi and use Amazon Local Services, it comes to a little more than a $1000 (basically will be $200 if I get all the tax credits). Since the federal tax credit expires at the end of the year, I'm trying to get this all done before the end of the year.

Find out if your utility provider requires an EVSE that is UL listed or not, to receive the rebate. LADWP does not reimburse here for non UL listed EVSE units. Also insurance wont cover an electric fire if you use a non UL listed device.

 

[judah8750]

Find out if your utility provider requires an EVSE that is UL listed or not, to receive the rebate. LADWP does not reimburse here for non UL listed EVSE units. Also insurance wont cover an electric fire if you use a non UL listed device.

I thought it was just a state wide California $1000 write-off when you file at the end of the year. So assumed no one would really check up on the UL. I really like the JuiceBox 40. Am I mistaken? http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/10513

 

[JoulesThief]

Find out if your utility provider requires an EVSE that is UL listed or not, to receive the rebate. LADWP does not reimburse here for non UL listed EVSE units. Also insurance wont cover an electric fire if you use a non UL listed device.

I thought it was just a state wide California $1000 write-off when you file at the end of the year. So assumed no one would really check up on the UL. I really like the JuiceBox 40. Am I mistaken? http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/10513

For reasons unknown, I did not qualify for that rebate on my tax return, perhaps my CPA made an error?

 

[miimura]

Form 8911 that is used for Charging Infrastructure does not offset AMT like the vehicle tax credit does. If you are subject to AMT, the credit from 8911 will get wiped out. Most people will also have the 8911 credit wiped out if they take the vehicle tax credit in the same year. However, if you're leasing, that part doesn't apply to you, so you're much more likely to get the 8911 credit.

 

[bhan89]

Yea since I'm leasing I don't think I'll be affected by AMT. Also, since I'm in Maryland, they cover 50% of the installation + costs of the EV charger. Add that with the 30% tax credit from the federal government, I'm only paying 20% out of my pocket for the charger. I don't see anything about the UL requirement, so I believe the JuiceBox is still eligible for the credit. Also, the company said they were going to get UL certified for the JuiceBox by the end of the year.

 

[judah8750]

Form 8911 that is used for Charging Infrastructure does not offset AMT like the vehicle tax credit does. If you are subject to AMT, the credit from 8911 will get wiped out. Most people will also have the 8911 credit wiped out if they take the vehicle tax credit in the same year. However, if you're leasing, that part doesn't apply to you, so you're much more likely to get the 8911 credit.

Would the federal solar investment tax credit affect my ability to deduct for the charging infrastructure in California?

 

[miimura]

Form 8911 that is used for Charging Infrastructure does not offset AMT like the vehicle tax credit does. If you are subject to AMT, the credit from 8911 will get wiped out. Most people will also have the 8911 credit wiped out if they take the vehicle tax credit in the same year. However, if you're leasing, that part doesn't apply to you, so you're much more likely to get the 8911 credit.

Would the federal solar investment tax credit affect my ability to deduct for the charging infrastructure in California?

Most likely, yes. I believe the Solar ITC is like the vehicle purchase tax credit in that it offsets AMT. The 8911 credit does not offset AMT, so it will probably get wiped out. Basically any time you have an extraordinary tax credit, you probably won't get the 8911 credit.