Have you experienced battery degradation?

[gene]

I am new to this eGolf forum, but a 3 years Tesla Mode S owner. I'm considering an eGolf for my wife until Tesla Model 3 comes out. I am a guy who buys, never leases. Reasons being my wife and daughter trash the interior and she'll likely put over 15k miles per year. Also, the eGolf would likely go to my daughter when she hits 16. For these reasons I would be a buyer, not a leaser. So, battery longevity matters. The Leaf battery has longevity issues but only costs $5500 to replace. A VW battery is likely to be much more expensive. My son has a VW TDI, so we are already annoyed, pissed, and lack trust VW, yet that eGolf really drives nicely.

I am not finding any other threads on this subject. Those of you with some months and miles on the eGolf, have you noticed any decrease in range?

Thx, Gene

 

[jack8trades]

I'd be curious about how many miles eGolfs have been accruing. I've only put 7.5k on mine in 10 months, with no noticeable capacity loss, and wouldn't expect any just yet. I'm sure others have gone a lot further... maybe a mileage vs. battery capacity thread?

The annual/10k service may produce a battery status report, that would be good info to post.

 

[JoulesThief]

VW warranties to 8 years and 100,000 miles on the battery, guaranteeing at least 70% capacity. It's a little early to tell about loss of capacity, there aren't a lot of high mileage e-Golfs out there yet.

The e-Golf drives way nicer than the Leaf, fit and finish are much nicer too, in the SEL trim. Replacement cost on the battery remains to be seen, but knowing VW, it won't be a cheap fix, VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

I rolled the dice, and bought mine also. 1500 miles in 7 weeks, too soon to tell. What I do feel will be telling is how much and how often folks use accessories that tear up the battery life, like the A/C and heater. The creature comforts take a big hit on the battery life. Don't use them and the battery will last a LOT longer. Use them relentlessly, and it won't last nearly as long. The women I've known don't give much thought to these things, well, unless they are electrical engineers too.

Have a female friend that left her water bottle lid open in the passenger seat of her new TDI and roasted the electric heater in the seat... expected VW to cover it under warranty, for her stupidity. VW dealerships don't tolerate warranty work like that, there's an unwritten stupidity clause in the ownership agreement. Same with folks that pump gasoline into their TDI diesel fuel tanks, misfuel, and try to blame it on VW. It happens more often than you think. There's a general lack of accountability out there now with some car owners.

One thing that I can guarantee with VW and Audi product is this... If you slam your doors shut, even moderately, sooner or later you will wreck the electrical switches inside the door lock, and crack the soldering on the circuit board, and have all kinds of alarm problems and locking problems down the line. So no matter how rushed, how late, or how mad you are, NEVER slam the doors shut on a VW, it wrecks the electronics in the door locks, from all the jarring.

Grab the door by the door handle, and 6 inches from being fully closed, give it a firm push, just enough to engage fully the door lock latches and overcome the resistance of the rubber door seals to get it to lock shut. Teach you family this technique, demand that they use it all the time on VW product. You'll thank me later.

Personally, if driving over 15k miles a year, get the wife a TDI instead, when they go back on sale. That's a lot of miles and charging time for an electric car with a battery, sitting there tethered to an outlet. VW recommends using the level 3 charging system sparingly, their batteries really are designed for slow, level 2 charging. Fast charging is hard on battery life of Li cells, just look at how long the batteries last on your smart phone being quick charged. It's ok in a smart phone, batteries are cheap... not so in an e-Golf. The local dealership to me, Neftin, replaced a battery pack in a 2015 golf that had failed. I asked for what it cost to replace in the service department, and all said and done, VW was sent a bill for $17,000 to replace it. True story, that was what I was told. A specialist team of 3 guys is sent around, per diem, to do the job.

 

[blownb310]

VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

Amen to that!

 

[gene]

VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

Just what I was afraid of, owning an EV with no idea what the battery might cost some day. Well, after plenty of lousy experiences with VW, and now an owner of the offending TDI, add to that your words reminding me just what a bummer VW is to deal with, maybe I should just look at a Leaf or Spark, damn, I wish the Model 3 was now available. My experience with the incredible service and buying experience with Tesla has spoiled me for life. A few months ago, I took the TDI in for some warranty issue, OMG, what a nightmare. I had bought the extended warranty from this very dealer. They told me they lost my paperwork and as far as they were concerned, I had no warranty. What an argument ensued, finally I prevailed when I returned with email proof of the purchase.. But you know what I just don't need that kind of service anymore. Thank you for your input. My wife now has a Prius, I've driven the Leaf and Spark, they may not drive as well as the eGolf, but they are certainly as nice or better than the Prius. The local Nissan and Chevy dealers aren't too bad (fingers crossed).

 

[gene]

One thing that I can guarantee with VW and Audi product is this... If you slam your doors shut, even moderately, sooner or later you will wreck the electrical switches inside the door lock, and crack the soldering on the circuit board, and have all kinds of alarm problems and locking problems down the line. So no matter how rushed, how late, or how mad you are, NEVER slam the doors shut on a VW, it wrecks the electronics in the door locks, from all the jarring.

Grab the door by the door handle, and 6 inches from being fully closed, give it a firm push, just enough to engage fully the door lock latches and overcome the resistance of the rubber door seals to get it to lock shut. Teach you family this technique, demand that they use it all the time on VW product. You'll thank me later.

This above is hilarious. Reminds me of a VW Quantum my dad had. All the door switches went bad, the ignition switch broke, all of this within 25k miles. I replaced all these switches with heavy duty toggle switches. My dad has never given a hoot what his car looks like. Even the ignition switch I replaced with a momentary on/full on rotary switch. No key was required to drive that car! It lasted about 150,000 miles in this condition. Man that thing rattled like crazy. I did have to replace the CV joints about 4 times. There were plenty of other things we jerry rigged. It became a hobby to see how silly we could repair that car, no matter what it looked like.

 

[JoulesThief]

VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

Just what I was afraid of, owning an EV with no idea what the battery might cost some day. Well, after plenty of lousy experiences with VW, and now an owner of the offending TDI, add to that your words reminding me just what a bummer VW is to deal with, maybe I should just look at a Leaf or Spark, damn, I wish the Model 3 was now available. My experience with the incredible service and buying experience with Tesla has spoiled me for life. A few months ago, I took the TDI in for some warranty issue, OMG, what a nightmare. I had bought the extended warranty from this very dealer. They told me they lost my paperwork and as far as they were concerned, I had no warranty. What an argument ensued, finally I prevailed when I returned with email proof of the purchase.. But you know what I just don't need that kind of service anymore. Thank you for your input. My wife now has a Prius, I've driven the Leaf and Spark, they may not drive as well as the eGolf, but they are certainly as nice or better than the Prius. The local Nissan and Chevy dealers aren't too bad (fingers crossed).

Neftin VW quoted me $17,000. That's what they billed VW for a replacement on a 2015 SEL with 6000 miles on the battery pack when it failed and had to be R&R'd. They'd done one recently when I asked. YMMV, I'd ask your local VW dealership service department on the price to R&R a battery pack out of warranty.

 

[f1geek]

Why would using the radio, heater, air conditioning, defroster,etc. "tear up the battery"? Aren't the accessories powered by the 12V battery?

 

[JoulesThief]

Why would using the radio, heater, air conditioning, defroster,etc. "tear up the battery"? Aren't the accessories powered by the 12V battery?

I'll defer, and let Miura answer your question. High power items use high voltage.

Better yet, go down to your VW dealership and test drive an e-Golf, and flip on all those accessories with ignition on, ready to drive, and watch what happens to your range as it shrinks in the infotainment center before your very eyes. Tweek the AC temps down, and then tweek the heater temps up, without driving, and watch the numbers of range change significantly. That's the added load on your high voltage battery. None of those accessories runs for free.

 

[JoulesThief]

One thing that I can guarantee with VW and Audi product is this... If you slam your doors shut, even moderately, sooner or later you will wreck the electrical switches inside the door lock, and crack the soldering on the circuit board, and have all kinds of alarm problems and locking problems down the line. So no matter how rushed, how late, or how mad you are, NEVER slam the doors shut on a VW, it wrecks the electronics in the door locks, from all the jarring.

Grab the door by the door handle, and 6 inches from being fully closed, give it a firm push, just enough to engage fully the door lock latches and overcome the resistance of the rubber door seals to get it to lock shut. Teach you family this technique, demand that they use it all the time on VW product. You'll thank me later.

This above is hilarious. Reminds me of a VW Quantum my dad had. All the door switches went bad, the ignition switch broke, all of this within 25k miles. I replaced all these switches with heavy duty toggle switches. My dad has never given a hoot what his car looks like. Even the ignition switch I replaced with a momentary on/full on rotary switch. No key was required to drive that car! It lasted about 150,000 miles in this condition. Man that thing rattled like crazy. I did have to replace the CV joints about 4 times. There were plenty of other things we jerry rigged. It became a hobby to see how silly we could repair that car, no matter what it looked like.

My point is this: Treat a german car like an expensive german fine instrument, and it will last a very, very long time. Treat it like an abused tool whose only purpose is to make you money by working it harder, faster, and you'll pay dearly for that increased productivity, it becomes a throw away car in short order.

 

[bizzle]

Don't forget to consider the intangibles, such as, your wife's driving comfort while you're cruising around in a Tesla. It'd be difficult for me to make a cost-based argument for my wife to be relegated to a budget model if I was driving around in a luxury sedan. Besides, in ten years that $17K price tag will probably be closer to $10K and the batteries will be serviceable by independent shops.

A 60 mile round-trip range isn't necessarily a bad thing to impose upon a 16 year old child. When it's time for your daughter to inherit the car, assuming she even wants the equivalent of an iPhone 2G for her birthday, you might not even worry about replacing the batteries.

 

[JoulesThief]

I'd put a 16 year old girl in a cheap japanese car first, long before she'd get to drive and wreck anything german on wheels. Steep learning curve, let them learn on their own dime. A car is a luxury, a privilege, not a right, and certainly not at 16 years old, IMHO. Especially if your wife and daughter "trash cars" as you stated in your first post.

 

[Sparky]

Gene, if you'll use the car anywhere close to what I have thus far, you'll be very impressed. I have had my eGolf for about six months and commute over 2,000 miles a month with the car. My daily commute is approximately 110 miles on the interstate, so I partially recharge the car at work and charge again at home in the evening. That's not abusing the battery but is definitely testing the realistic capacity for daily commuting. At over 14,000 on the clock, I honestly haven't noticed any loss of range yet. But as other users have noted, six months is nothing in the life of the battery.

Like you, I'm interested in a Model 3 when they become available, simply because the 200 mile range would open up possible travel here in S. Florida that's not realistic with the eGolf yet without Level 3 charging (which is non existent here). But other than greater range, I can't say anything negative about the performance and handling of an eGolf. Go for it and don't look back. You'll love it.
Tom

I am new to this eGolf forum, but a 3 years Tesla Mode S owner. I'm considering an eGolf for my wife until Tesla Model 3 comes out. I am a guy who buys, never leases. Reasons being my wife and daughter trash the interior and she'll likely put over 15k miles per year. Also, the eGolf would likely go to my daughter when she hits 16. For these reasons I would be a buyer, not a leaser. So, battery longevity matters. The Leaf battery has longevity issues but only costs $5500 to replace. A VW battery is likely to be much more expensive. My son has a VW TDI, so we are already annoyed, pissed, and lack trust VW, yet that eGolf really drives nicely.

I am not finding any other threads on this subject. Those of you with some months and miles on the eGolf, have you noticed any decrease in range?

Thx, Gene

 

[bizzle]

That's good information to hear from South Florida. I'm in the desert here in California and the high ambient temps were my main concern in regards to battery longevity.

 

[JoulesThief]

That's good information to hear from South Florida. I'm in the desert here in California and the high ambient temps were my main concern in regards to battery longevity.

How does this affect you long term when you leased your car for 3 years, and have stated you'll be driving it back in to VW when your lease term is up? Would not seem like a concern at all when leasing. Ownership, however, is a whole other matter.

 

[bizzle]

The battery's longevity out here in the desert is my primary concern with long-term ownership of the SE. The lack of a faster charging system is irrelevant to us due to all electricity is charged at a flat rate out here regardless of on/off peak usage, the range is sufficient for our needs, and a faster charge doesn't get us out of the valley with a usable reserve anyway.

The only thing that would allow us to replace the TDI with an EV would be a 200mile range. Leasing allows my wife and I to enjoy the car now with the option of buying or returning it when the lease expires.

As it currently sits, our payments are $215 after tax with a 10K/year allowance, lease wear&tear protection, zero down (absolutely nothing out of pocket), and an $11,900 residual.

If we decide to walk away from it we'll end up spending $5K out of pocket and if we keep it we'll end up paying less than $16.5.

Even if we decide we don't want to keep the egolf, so long as we keep it in good condition and it's value doesn't plummet, we could have equity built into the car when the lease term is up.

If it turns out the heat down here bakes the passively cooled batteries more than VW claims then we don't have any concerns. If it doesn't we also don't have any concerns. It seemed to be win/win to lease. We didn't have enough tax liability this year to guarantee that we'd get the full $7500 back from the feds. I hope people who are considering buying are looking closely at that portion of the incentive and are certain they're getting the full amount.

 

[gene]

Thanks to all for your input. I'm using the Tesla for work as I put on over 30k miles a year. The reason I'm looking at short range EV's for my wife is she drives only 6 miles round trip to work. Safety does mean a lot to me and the 1/4 overlap crash on the eGolf is much better than the other short range EV's (except for the Soul EV which did very well). On weekends the Tesla is used exclusively (especially on long road trips). I'll keep reading this thread. You are all making valid points which will help with my decision.

 

[JoulesThief]

VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

Just what I was afraid of, owning an EV with no idea what the battery might cost some day. Well, after plenty of lousy experiences with VW, and now an owner of the offending TDI, add to that your words reminding me just what a bummer VW is to deal with, maybe I should just look at a Leaf or Spark, damn, I wish the Model 3 was now available. My experience with the incredible service and buying experience with Tesla has spoiled me for life. A few months ago, I took the TDI in for some warranty issue, OMG, what a nightmare. I had bought the extended warranty from this very dealer. They told me they lost my paperwork and as far as they were concerned, I had no warranty. What an argument ensued, finally I prevailed when I returned with email proof of the purchase.. But you know what I just don't need that kind of service anymore. Thank you for your input. My wife now has a Prius, I've driven the Leaf and Spark, they may not drive as well as the eGolf, but they are certainly as nice or better than the Prius. The local Nissan and Chevy dealers aren't too bad (fingers crossed).

FWIW, that 2500 from the state and $7500 federal tax credit goes a lot fahrfignueghener on an e-Golf than a Tesla.

Example: I picked up in October a 2015 SEL e-Golf, with $2000 owners loyalty and who knows what else, for $25,300, MSRP of $36,300. With the $10,000 credit, I am in my e-Golf for $15,300 before sales tax and registration and tags. That $10k goes a LOT farther on an inexpensive BEV car than a $75k Tesla S70, which would be $65000 before taxes, registration and delivery, and there's no negotiating with a Tesla. Granted, a Tesla is the Ne Plus Ultra of BEV's, but for the Euro or dollar, the e-Golf does give you the German driving experience. It's not cheap, but for those that can afford the service, I will take a german car, hands down, every time, for driving here in the mountains and canyons of California. I can't explain it, or put it into words, it's just something that when you experience it, or push the car near the limit, the level of confidence in a German car is just "there". I don't push my cars that hard, but I appreciate knowing that the potential is there, even if I am not using it daily, or only rarely. I just really appreciate all the Germans do to increase the level of efficiency in their cars, as I use it, religiously.

 

[gene]

VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

Just what I was afraid of, owning an EV with no idea what the battery might cost some day. Well, after plenty of lousy experiences with VW, and now an owner of the offending TDI, add to that your words reminding me just what a bummer VW is to deal with, maybe I should just look at a Leaf or Spark, damn, I wish the Model 3 was now available. My experience with the incredible service and buying experience with Tesla has spoiled me for life. A few months ago, I took the TDI in for some warranty issue, OMG, what a nightmare. I had bought the extended warranty from this very dealer. They told me they lost my paperwork and as far as they were concerned, I had no warranty. What an argument ensued, finally I prevailed when I returned with email proof of the purchase.. But you know what I just don't need that kind of service anymore. Thank you for your input. My wife now has a Prius, I've driven the Leaf and Spark, they may not drive as well as the eGolf, but they are certainly as nice or better than the Prius. The local Nissan and Chevy dealers aren't too bad (fingers crossed).

FWIW, that 2500 from the state and $7500 federal tax credit goes a lot fahrfignueghener on an e-Golf than a Tesla.

Example: I picked up in October a 2015 SEL e-Golf, with $2000 owners loyalty and who knows what else, for $25,300, MSRP of $36,300. With the $10,000 credit, I am in my e-Golf for $15,300 before sales tax and registration and tags. That $10k goes a LOT farther on an inexpensive BEV car than a $75k Tesla S70, which would be $65000 before taxes, registration and delivery, and there's no negotiating with a Tesla Granted, a Tesla is the Ne Plus Ultra of BEV's, but for the Euro or dollar, the e-Golf does give you the German driving experience. It's not cheap, but for those that can afford the service, I will take a german car, hands down, every time, for driving here in the mountains and canyons of California. I can't explain it, or put it into words, it's just something that when you experience it, or push the car near the limit, the level of confidence in a German car is just "there". I don't push my cars that hard, but I appreciate knowing that the potential is there, even if I am not using it daily, or only rarely.

Yes, I have driven the eGolf. It was quite nice, but really, not fair as I just stepped out of my Model S before driving the eGolf. When I think of it, the biggest repulsion I am feeling towards the eGolf is having to deal with the local VW dealer and sending any money at all to VW who ripped me off on a $5,000 premium as I had bought a new TDI 5 years ago. I think I may just be too pissed off at VW to ever trust them or even want to see a VW logo in my driveway ever again.

 

[JoulesThief]

FWIW, that 2500 from the state and $7500 federal tax credit goes a lot fahrfignueghener on an e-Golf than a Tesla.

Example: I picked up in October a 2015 SEL e-Golf, with $2000 owners loyalty and who knows what else, for $25,300, MSRP of $36,300. With the $10,000 credit, I am in my e-Golf for $15,300 before sales tax and registration and tags. That $10k goes a LOT farther on an inexpensive BEV car than a $75k Tesla S70, which would be $65000 before taxes, registration and delivery, and there's no negotiating with a Tesla Granted, a Tesla is the Ne Plus Ultra of BEV's, but for the Euro or dollar, the e-Golf does give you the German driving experience. It's not cheap, but for those that can afford the service, I will take a german car, hands down, every time, for driving here in the mountains and canyons of California. I can't explain it, or put it into words, it's just something that when you experience it, or push the car near the limit, the level of confidence in a German car is just "there". I don't push my cars that hard, but I appreciate knowing that the potential is there, even if I am not using it daily, or only rarely.

Yes, I have driven the eGolf. It was quite nice, but really, not fair as I just stepped out of my Model S before driving the eGolf. When I think of it, the biggest repulsion I am feeling towards the eGolf is having to deal with the local VW dealer and sending any money at all to VW who ripped me off on a $5,000 premium as I had bought a new TDI 5 years ago. I think I may just be too pissed off at VW to ever trust them or even want to see a VW logo in my driveway ever again.

LOL, well beat VW up on an e-Golf and get all of your $5000 back. Timing is everything in pricing a new car. VW has treated me very, very well with the past 5 VW's I've bought new from them. Find a dealer that needs to make a sale to reach a quota for the month, and you're golden. If you live in a political climate where people pay stupid money all too willingly for the latest fad, or dealer markup, travel somewhere else where the buyers aren't lining up for the exact model you want.