Cold Temperatures effect on eGolf Range

[EV4NYC]

Hello All,

Curious about how cold temperatures are effecting the eGolf's range.
If you check the forums on the Honda FIT EV there were many such issues where the range would be decreased substantially on a full charge. Being that we are in the midst of yet another round of the "Polar Vortex" on the east coast, I am curious if any of you had experienced any such noticeable range issues with the eGolf.

Thanks

 

[AgentEG]

Hello All,

Curious about how cold temperatures are effecting the eGolf's range.
If you check the forums on the Honda FIT EV there were many such issues where the range would be decreased substantially on a full charge. Being that we are in the midst of yet another round of the "Polar Vortex" on the east coast, I am curious if any of you had experienced any such noticeable range issues with the eGolf.

Thanks

Im in Maryland, in the temperature in my garage was about 45 degrees this morning, maybe less. When I got in the car the range said 62, and I was really kinda bummed out that it was that low, however after driving a couple of miles, the range jumped up to 69, then again to 72. My commute is about 14-15 miles, so when I got to work, my range on the dash was 61. So I was somewhat happy about that.

I wish they could have gave it a slightly bigger batter maybe 100-120m range, but thats wishful thinking.

Im rambling but as a reference, when I first purchased it when the weather was somewhat warmer, 65-70 ish, I would get in the car in the morning with 99 on the dash and get to work with a range of 76-78.

So to wrap it up, i would say the range is 75-92, based on weather and driving habits. Fun fact, the mean of that range is 83.5 miles. Which would be consistent with EPA of 83 miles.

 

[cove3]

There's a lot of discussion of this at the BMW i3 forum.The consensus is that cold weather affects range by 10-20 percent. Some of the posters felt BMW was not being upfront in indicating this to buyers. I assume the e-Golf batteries using similar technology will experience a similar degradation

Ron

 

[EV4NYC]

Thanks guys for the quick reply,

That sounds consistent with what they experienced with the FIT EV battery, I'd be interested to hear if very cold weather decreases range even further, i.e. 20 - 30 Miles of Range in temperatures of 20 - 40 degrees F.

New York City is filled with extreme weather and the FIT EV was a big pain for a lot of people because of the range fluctuations, the Golf was supposed to have a better engineered battery.

 

[AgentEG]

Thanks guys for the quick reply,

That sounds consistent with what they experienced with the FIT EV battery, I'd be interested to hear if very cold weather decreases range even further, i.e. 20 - 30 Miles of Range in temperatures of 20 - 40 degrees F.

New York City is filled with extreme weather and the FIT EV was a big pain for a lot of people because of the range fluctuations, the Golf was supposed to have a better engineered battery.

So my garage was 45, but it was well below 20 degrees last night and this morning. It warmed up a bit toward the end of the day but still

34 mile commute with 45 left on the indicator

heres a picture, note the outside temp was 21 degrees

http://imgur.com/wxixc2b

 

[EV4NYC]

Thanks guys for the quick reply,

That sounds consistent with what they experienced with the FIT EV battery, I'd be interested to hear if very cold weather decreases range even further, i.e. 20 - 30 Miles of Range in temperatures of 20 - 40 degrees F.

New York City is filled with extreme weather and the FIT EV was a big pain for a lot of people because of the range fluctuations, the Golf was supposed to have a better engineered battery.

So my garage was 45, but it was well below 20 degrees last night and this morning. It warmed up a bit toward the end of the day but still

34 mile commute with 45 left on the indicator

heres a picture, note the outside temp was 21 degrees

http://imgur.com/wxixc2b

I see, I guess what your saying is that you started out with 79 miles of range in a 45 degree garage. If this is what you are saying then that is encouraging seems like others got less. Thanks for the reply!

 

[AgentEG]

Thanks guys for the quick reply,

That sounds consistent with what they experienced with the FIT EV battery, I'd be interested to hear if very cold weather decreases range even further, i.e. 20 - 30 Miles of Range in temperatures of 20 - 40 degrees F.

New York City is filled with extreme weather and the FIT EV was a big pain for a lot of people because of the range fluctuations, the Golf was supposed to have a better engineered battery.

So my garage was 45, but it was well below 20 degrees last night and this morning. It warmed up a bit toward the end of the day but still

34 mile commute with 45 left on the indicator

heres a picture, note the outside temp was 21 degrees

http://imgur.com/wxixc2b

I see, I guess what your saying is that you started out with 79 miles of range in a 45 degree garage. If this is what you are saying then that is encouraging seems like others got less. Thanks for the reply!

Exacto mundo. Today the range was 80, and jumped to 84 after I turned off the heat. Same temperatures. Its still represents about a 10-15% reduction in range. In my volt, id say its more like 15-25% reduction.

 

[eGolfingBuffalo]

In Buffalo yesterday, the temperature outside was in the single digits (F). My commute round trip is 34 miles, I had the heat at 70, and a passenger and I had the car seat heaters on at mid level, very comfortable temperature on the inside. When I got home, the indicator showed 17 miles remaining at about 3/8 of a "tank", so probably 51 miles for a total range. I also noticed that when I first started driving, the estimated miles/kwh showed in the 1.5-1.7 range, and then increased to about 2.2 as the car warmed up. I haven't driven the car yet in anything that could be considered warm weather, but when it is a bit warmer, around 30 degrees, I am getting about a 70 mile range and the miles/kwh gets up to about 3.3. Not sure how much the range is an issue of battery technology vs. keeping the driver and passenger warm. Probably could drive to work with the heater off to find out, but maybe not...

Temperature today is -1 (F), so probably won't get a great range again today, but I think I will get to work and back no problem. To put perspective on this though, the other day I had to fill my wife's car (a VW Passat) with gas in the blowing cold and that made me really appreciate being able to drive the e-Golf into the garage, close the door and plug it in.

Also, the e-Golf does great in the snow, never have had any trouble with slipping or feeling I would get stuck. However, I did not drive the e-Golf on a recent day when there was a lake effect snow warning because I would not want to be stuck on the highway for hours trying to keep warm on battery power. I have a 4 wheel drive for those days and I keep the gas tank full and a blanket in the back.

 

[AgentEG]

In Buffalo yesterday, the temperature outside was in the single digits (F). My commute round trip is 34 miles, I had the heat at 70, and a passenger and I had the car seat heaters on at mid level, very comfortable temperature on the inside. When I got home, the indicator showed 17 miles remaining at about 3/8 of a "tank", so probably 51 miles for a total range. I also noticed that when I first started driving, the estimated miles/kwh showed in the 1.5-1.7 range, and then increased to about 2.2 as the car warmed up. I haven't driven the car yet in anything that could be considered warm weather, but when it is a bit warmer, around 30 degrees, I am getting about a 70 mile range and the miles/kwh gets up to about 3.3. Not sure how much the range is an issue of battery technology vs. keeping the driver and passenger warm. Probably could drive to work with the heater off to find out, but maybe not...

Temperature today is -1 (F), so probably won't get a great range again today, but I think I will get to work and back no problem. To put perspective on this though, the other day I had to fill my wife's car (a VW Passat) with gas in the blowing cold and that made me really appreciate being able to drive the e-Golf into the garage, close the door and plug it in.

Also, the e-Golf does great in the snow, never have had any trouble with slipping or feeling I would get stuck. However, I did not drive the e-Golf on a recent day when there was a lake effect snow warning because I would not want to be stuck on the highway for hours trying to keep warm on battery power. I have a 4 wheel drive for those days and I keep the gas tank full and a blanket in the back.

So ive been playing around with the Golf to see how to get the best range. Ive found its best to warm your car while still connected to the charger, I was able to get 90 miles the other day in cold weather.

 

[RobKaulfuss]

The e-Golf has a 24.2 kWh battery but only 21.1 is usable as Ron (below) pointed out, which I did not know. This helps explain a discrepancy that I have often noticed between predicted and actual range. When you do a full charge, the predicted range seems to be based on the full 24.2 kWh and based on some algorithm that is not entirely clear but seems to be based on the last trip and a longer average consumption rate. As you drive, the range adjusts itself based on how you are driving and what modes and equipment are being used. In other words, the predicted range after a charge really has nothing to do with what you will get as it is based on 24.2 instead of 21.1 and is also based on your previous driving.

I have just done some detailed calculations for a couple of days where I ran the battery down pretty low. It seems to confirm the 21.1 kWh usable capacity.

JANUARY 14 (15-22 degrees, normal mode, mostly highway, with high heat)
1: 24 miles / 3.1 miles/kWh = 7.74 kWh used
2: 10 miles / 2.7 miles/kWh = 3.7 kWh used
3: 18 miles / 2.9 miles/kWh = 6.2 kWh used
4: 10 miles left when I got home based on 2.9 miles/hWh, so 3.4 kWh left (just a guess)
62 miles of range with 21.04 kWh used counting the 10 miles left (since the mileage does not round up, that explains the difference)

I did a similar detailed calculation for the cold day trip described below where I ran the car down to 7 miles and the capacity of 21.1 also fit.

After a while, you will get a sense of how many miles/kWh you are getting or will get depending on driving conditions and can just multiply that by the fraction of battery you have left. For example, if you are getting 3 miles/kWh in cold weather and fast highway driving and have half your battery capacity left, the predicted range would be (21.1 / 2 X 3 = 31.65 miles). However, if your trip home at the end of the day will be in rush hour traffic and the temperature has gone up, your mileage might well be 4.0 X (21.1 /2) = 42.2. I find that this method of estimation is sometimes better than the car's range estimate.

Mileage is affected by:
1) Temperature and how much heating you are doing (which really takes a lot)
2) Speed (slower is better) and mileage goes up in stop & go rush hour traffic (the reason is that, aside from heat, you don't use power if you are not moving, plus electric motors have all their torque right away so don't need to rev up to move the car, plus regenerative breaking)
3) Drive Mode (Normal/Eco/Eco Plus)
4) Driving style (aggressiveness is very tempting with all that instant torque)

Finally, if you prestart the climate control and/or windshield defroster while the car is still plugged in, this can help with the start of your trip. However, the charging may not be able to quite keep up with the drain, even with a Level 2 charger, depending on conditions and temp settings. I did find out that that there is a setting (not the default) that will let you prestart the climate control system even when the car is not plugged in, although it shuts off after 20 minutes. When I was using Level 1 charging, I think it also shut off after 20 minutes.

I did have an extremely cold day of 0-15 degree driving where I ended up with 60 miles of actual range. 2/3 were normal driving with heated seats, some highway, and a decent amount of heat and got 2.7 miles/kWh. The last 1/3, I did resort to Eco and then finally Eco plus with no heat and got 3.7 miles/kWh. I made it to a 99 Restaurant with a Level 2 charger and only 7 miles (included in my 60 estimate)to spare and was in the red zone on the battery capacity gauge. Resorting to the Eco and Eco Plus really boosted the mileage. However, I did not feel very safe in Eco Plus on a major highway.

In my typical commute of mostly 55-65 of highway driving in 20-30 degree weather with lots of heat (76 degrees), normal mode, full regen braking (B), and an occasional burst of aggressive acceleration for fun, I am averaging 3.0-3.4 kWh, which translates to a range of about 63-72 miles. My best mileage ever on a daily commute was 4.6 on a warm day with slower traffic and no aggressive driving, which would be a 97 mile range.

I use the full regenerative breaking mode, not just for mileage but because I like not having to use the breaks very often. It also puts on the break lights so it communicates deceleration more readily to those behind.

 

[cove3]

<<<if you are getting 3 miles/kWh and have half your battery capacity left, you would have about 12 X 3 = 36 miles left.>>

Only 21.1 of the 24.2 is usable, the rest is off limits for charge/discharge to save the battery. Wouldn't the 1/2 empty guage be based on 21.1 so that instead of 36 miles left, you would have 31.5 (10.5 x 3)?

Ron

 

[RobKaulfuss]

<<<if you are getting 3 miles/kWh and have half your battery capacity left, you would have about 12 X 3 = 36 miles left.>>

Only 21.1 of the 24.2 is usable, the rest is off limits for charge/discharge to save the battery. Wouldn't the 1/2 empty guage be based on 21.1 so that instead of 36 miles left, you would have 31.5 (10.5 x 3)?

Ron

Ron- You are right and this helps explain a discrepancy in the cars post-charge range predictions compared to range estimates while actually driving. I just studied my mileage data from the Car Net app and completely redid my post above.
Thanks.

 

[samNY]

Yes, I have experienced what seems to be a decline in range when the car shows fully charged. See my post titled 'Full Charge Below 80 miles?' text of which is set out below . . .

'I have had my eGolf just over 3 weeks now. It was in service for about a week and just got it back with JX1 module replaced and a software update. Since getting it, I have noticed that the battery is showing as fully charged while the mile range keeps dropping. At first when showing as fully charged, it showed a range in the low 80s, but that range has continually declined and is now showing a range of just 67 miles at a full charge. Can this be due to cold temperatures (the high here today was around 17 degrees)? The decline in range when showing fully charged has seemed to correspond to the deep freeze we are currently experiencing in the Northeast.'

Also, with this decline, I have experienced driving to work (about 15 miles) and ending up at work with about the same (or even exactly the same or slightly more) range than what I started with when leaving home, whereas when I would start off with the range showing above 80, it would drop into the low to mid 70s pretty quickly, then end at around 75 when I arrived at work.

 

[DR61]

Good article (from last year) on how cold weather affects EV's:

http://www.plugincars.com/electric-car-drivers-report-cold-weather-impact-129218.html

I wish EV makers would educate buyers a bit better on this topic.

 

[cove3]

sam, unless you're all ready doing it, when starting a trip, use the right button assembly on the steering wheel to toggle left or right to "driving data", click the button multiple times to get to "since start" of trip. Then use the up or down toggle adjacent to get to the miles/kwh your currently getting at the moment or the average for the trip from your conditioning, driving method and comfort setting.

You can then use that number along, with an estimate from the fuel gauge of the remaining kwh of the usable 21.1kwh capacity you have left, to get a more real time approximation of the range. See how it compares to toggling to what the vehicle calculates.

For example, if you're driving along getting around 3.5m/kwh and your fuel gauge says 50%, then your range left for the trip should be 3.5*.5*21.1 or 37 miles. eg 3 on a full charge = 63, 3.5= 74, 4= 85. I've gotten as high as 4.7 or 99

I'm of the opinion the miles/kwh number, whether for the trip, since last charge, or extended is the crucial number to get familiar with. Your objective should drive to get the maximum number, consistent with your conditioning, comfort and peel rubber objectives. The range calculator would be secondary input

I also am puzzled why car-net has a different measure and view not at all in synch with the car.....kwh/100 miles and two view-short term for 5 trips and long term combining trips

Ron