Clipper Creek: delayed-charging problems with 2016s?

[currentlydriving]

Like Cclcal in a recent post, I’m looking at getting an EVSE, which I’d like to get all set up before I get my e-Golf. (Owing to the age of my house, I have to upgrade the electrical panel, which means my HOA has to approve the panel upgrade and the wiring to the garage. So I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I submit my request to the HOA board, in case they ask me for a lot of detail)

I’d like to get a 40-amp/10 kW EVSW to future-proof my installation, in case my next car in three years is a Model 3, an upgraded e-Golf, or whatever Budd-e-type vehicle VW comes up with. (I find it interesting that GM’s specs for the Bolt only include a 6.6 kW charger—really?) Ideally I’d put a NEMA 14-50 plug there to power the EVSE, which also means that in a few years I could just use that plug on a future Tesla, for instance.

There aren't a lot of 40-amp chargers out there that take a NEMA 14-50 plug. I see that Clipper Creek makes one, the HCS-50, but I remember people saying that there were issues with delayed charging with the Clipper Creek units. Given that delayed charging has moved in the 2016 cars from being a CarNet thing to being controlled by the infotainment system, is the delayed-charging issue fixed for 2016 e-Golfs connected to Clipper Creek units, or is that still a problem?

 

[miimura]

Like Cclcal in a recent post, I’m looking at getting an EVSE, which I’d like to get all set up before I get my e-Golf. (Owing to the age of my house, I have to upgrade the electrical panel, which means my HOA has to approve the panel upgrade and the wiring to the garage. So I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I submit my request to the HOA board, in case they ask me for a lot of detail)

I’d like to get a 40-amp/10 kW EVSW to future-proof my installation, in case my next car in three years is a Model 3, an upgraded e-Golf, or whatever Budd-e-type vehicle VW comes up with. (I find it interesting that GM’s specs for the Bolt only include a 6.6 kW charger—really?) Ideally I’d put a NEMA 14-50 plug there to power the EVSE, which also means that in a few years I could just use that plug on a future Tesla, for instance.

There aren't a lot of 40-amp chargers out there that take a NEMA 14-50 plug. I see that Clipper Creek makes one, the HCS-50, but I remember people saying that there were issues with delayed charging with the Clipper Creek units. Given that delayed charging has moved in the 2016 cars from being a CarNet thing to being controlled by the infotainment system, is the delayed-charging issue fixed for 2016 e-Golfs connected to Clipper Creek units, or is that still a problem?

I would not buy a Clipper Creek unit today due to the unresolved issues. However, you can proceed with your plan to upgrade your panel and install a NEMA 14-50 outlet. The reason I say you can proceed is that the EVSE is completely independent of the electrical work once it's complete. If you get a 30 or 32 amp EVSE after the work is complete, you can always change the breaker to 40A and use the same wire. You can also change the outlet from 14-50 to 6-50 or even change it to a hard wire setup. The key point is that the wire in the wall or conduit would be thick enough for 50 amp service and you can always use it with less demanding equipment. If you really want to future proof it, you could put a 100A sub-panel in so that you could charge two cars. When I built my house in 2011-2012 I didn't have any EVs but I figured I eventually would, so I put in two 50A circuits in my garage. During construction it only cost me about $250 each. Retrofit would have cost thousands due to the panel location relative to the garage. Now, three years later, they're both being used.

I can vouch for the Leviton EVB40 working with the e-Golf's delayed charging system. It's a 40A (9.6kW) unit that has a NEMA 6-50 plug, but it's about $700. The two versions either have the plug coming out the bottom, or have the plug hidden behind the top section of the plastic case. The bottom plug is for cases where you have the electrical box on top of the wall (Surface Mount), while the hidden top plug version is for the case where the plug is recessed in the wall (Flush Mount). I have pictures of my installation if you're interested.

Leviton EVB40 Amazon Link

 

[currentlydriving]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Leviton; I was looking at that EVSE, but I saw that it took a NEMA 6-50 plug. I had it in my mind that installing a NEMA 14-50 was the best route for future-proofing, because in the back of my head I figure that were I to get a Tesla in the future, it defaults to a 14-50 for its charging cord. If it’s not too expensive to change the plug in the future, I guess I could install a NEMA 6-50 for that Leviton charger now and then if I ever got a Tesla in the future, either use their 6-50 adapter for their charging cord or else switch the plug to a 14-50 and use Tesla’s charging cord as is. I was just hoping to not need to do another round with the electrician in a few years’ time!

(Or I could go the more-expensive-but-more-flexible route and get a JESLA—I have been considering that. Their new JAMP-Jr. looks good, and will be cheaper, but it’s not out yet.)

The hundred-amp sub-panel might be a way to go, if we were to go to two EVs in the future. I wonder how much more that will be to install? I’ll have to ask...

 

[Cclcal]

Like Cclcal in a recent post, I’m looking at getting an EVSE, which I’d like to get all set up before I get my e-Golf. (Owing to the age of my house, I have to upgrade the electrical panel, which means my HOA has to approve the panel upgrade and the wiring to the garage. So I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I submit my request to the HOA board, in case they ask me for a lot of detail)

I’d like to get a 40-amp/10 kW EVSW to future-proof my installation, in case my next car in three years is a Model 3, an upgraded e-Golf, or whatever Budd-e-type vehicle VW comes up with. (I find it interesting that GM’s specs for the Bolt only include a 6.6 kW charger—really?) Ideally I’d put a NEMA 14-50 plug there to power the EVSE, which also means that in a few years I could just use that plug on a future Tesla, for instance.

There aren't a lot of 40-amp chargers out there that take a NEMA 14-50 plug. I see that Clipper Creek makes one, the HCS-50, but I remember people saying that there were issues with delayed charging with the Clipper Creek units. Given that delayed charging has moved in the 2016 cars from being a CarNet thing to being controlled by the infotainment system, is the delayed-charging issue fixed for 2016 e-Golfs connected to Clipper Creek units, or is that still a problem?

Yes I spoke with the ClipperCreek sales guy and it's still an ongoing issue with no timeline for resolution. I'm avoiding it.
As advised by SFsoundguy the Siemens and the chargepoint are nice units.
Looking at the Juicebox40 since I want something w a 25ft cord. But before I buy an EVSE I was curious as to why we need one and Tesla does not.

Since you are contemplating a Tesla in the future....
My friend who has a Tesla just installed a 220V outlet and plugs his cord from the outlet directly to the carport. No need for a EVSE.

Is there a cord w a 220V plug on one end and the J1772 on the other?

 

[miimura]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Leviton; I was looking at that EVSE, but I saw that it took a NEMA 6-50 plug. I had it in my mind that installing a NEMA 14-50 was the best route for future-proofing, because in the back of my head I figure that were I to get a Tesla in the future, it defaults to a 14-50 for its charging cord. If it’s not too expensive to change the plug in the future, I guess I could install a NEMA 6-50 for that Leviton charger now and then if I ever got a Tesla in the future, either use their 6-50 adapter for their charging cord or else switch the plug to a 14-50 and use Tesla’s charging cord as is. I was just hoping to not need to do another round with the electrician in a few years’ time!

(Or I could go the more-expensive-but-more-flexible route and get a JESLA—I have been considering that. Their new JAMP-Jr. looks good, and will be cheaper, but it’s not out yet.)

The hundred-amp sub-panel might be a way to go, if we were to go to two EVs in the future. I wonder how much more that will be to install? I’ll have to ask...

I told my electrician to put the 14-50 because that way you are sure that they will pull the neutral wire. If you tell them 6-50, they will probably only pull the L1/L2/Gnd that is needed for that outlet. The outlet itself is less than $10 and it's easy to change later. You can just put a wire nut to cover the Neutral wire in the wiring box if you don't use it.

 

[currentlydriving]

Since you are contemplating a Tesla in the future....
My friend who has a Tesla just installed a 220V outlet and plugs his cord from the outlet directly to the carport. No need for a EVSE.

Is there a cord w a 220V plug on one end and the J1772 on the other?

Tesla’s Universal Mobile Connector is essentially what you describe, minus the J1772 connector, since Tesla uses their own proprietary one. They obviously have some electronics in the connector that does what any EVSE does—check for correct amperage and current, test for faults, that kind of thing. The coolness factor about Tesla’s connector is that the “wall-plug side” can come with a variety of plug adaptors—everything from a pokey NEMA 5-15 plug (in other words, a standard 110 V house plug) to dryer-outlet plugs, to NEMA 6-50 plugs, all the way up to a NEMA 14-50 plug.

What about the rest of us who don’t have Teslas? Quick Charge Power has taken the Tesla Mobile Connector and modified it by putting a J1772 connector on the end, instead of the Tesla one, thus enabling other EV owners to take advantage of its flexibility. They call this connector a “JESLA,” and I can see that it would be great for folks who may need to plug into many different types of plugs in their travels—maybe a family member who lives at the edge of your driving range has a dryer plug at their house that they’ll let you charge from, so just bring along a JESLA and a NEMA 14-30 adaptor and you’re all set to charge. Back home you can plug it in to your NEMA 14-50, for instance by swapping out the plug on the cord. The JESLA is pricey, however—some folks may not have it in their budget to spend nearly $1K on an EVSE, no matter how portable it is. They are coming out with a lower-cost option that will be a similar design that’s not so portable, as I understand it, called the JAMP JR, but it won’t be available until March or so. For those who prefer portability, having a cord instead of a big box on the wall, and the flexibility of changing plugs, these cord-based EVSEs sound like a good thing.

 

[miimura]

While Tesla's mobile connector is very cool, they are not supporting it well. The NEMA 14-30 adapter (dryer outlet) and 6-50 (EVSE and Welders) have been discontinued for a while and are almost impossible to get. They also discontinued the NEMA 10-30 adapter recently, but backtracked on it a little, allowing sales of existing inventory from service centers. I have a Jesla and I went to some extraordinary effort to get a 10-30 adapter recently. These adapters are very important for people who don't have a Tesla. The reason is that if you don't have a Tesla Model S or Model X, you must use the adapter to set the allowable amp draw. The adapter has an extra pin which is resistor coded to tell the box which adapter is present and how much current is allowed. The box translates that to the pilot signal for the car. On Tesla vehicles, you can adjust the charging current on the center stack screen. When you use a Jesla with a car that cannot do that, you must rely on the pilot signal to be correct so that the car does not overload the circuit. This is why using the proper adapter is so important. I was able to get the Jesla used for only $650, but I would not consider paying the full price today because Tesla is not providing a consistent supply of adapters that are necessary for Jesla users.

List of Adapters:
NEMA 5-15 - 120 Volts 12 amps (included with all Mobile Connectors)
NEMA 5-20 - 120 Volts 16 amps (optional, still available)
NEMA 6-15 - 240 Volts 12 amps (optional, still available)
NEMA 6-50 - 250 Volts 40 amps (optional, discontinued)
NEMA 10-30 - 240 Volts 24 amps (optional, discontinued)
NEMA 14-30 - 240 Volts 24 amps (optional, discontinued)
NEMA 14-50 - 240 Volts 40 amps (included with all Mobile Connectors)

Additional note: you can make your own additional adapter so you can use a NEMA 6-20 socket and the 5-20 adapter with 240 volts and 16 amps charging current.

This is a good reference (taken from Wikipedia) for different electrical sockets you will find in the United States.

 

[Cclcal]

Since you are contemplating a Tesla in the future....
My friend who has a Tesla just installed a 220V outlet and plugs his cord from the outlet directly to the carport. No need for a EVSE.

Is there a cord w a 220V plug on one end and the J1772 on the other?

Tesla’s Universal Mobile Connector is essentially what you describe, minus the J1772 connector, since Tesla uses their own proprietary one. They obviously have some electronics in the connector that does what any EVSE does—check for correct amperage and current, test for faults, that kind of thing. The coolness factor about Tesla’s connector is that the “wall-plug side” can come with a variety of plug adaptors—everything from a pokey NEMA 5-15 plug (in other words, a standard 110 V house plug) to dryer-outlet plugs, to NEMA 6-50 plugs, all the way up to a NEMA 14-50 plug.

What about the rest of us who don’t have Teslas? Quick Charge Power has taken the Tesla Mobile Connector and modified it by putting a J1772 connector on the end, instead of the Tesla one, thus enabling other EV owners to take advantage of its flexibility. They call this connector a “JESLA,” and I can see that it would be great for folks who may need to plug into many different types of plugs in their travels—maybe a family member who lives at the edge of your driving range has a dryer plug at their house that they’ll let you charge from, so just bring along a JESLA and a NEMA 14-30 adaptor and you’re all set to charge. Back home you can plug it in to your NEMA 14-50, for instance by swapping out the plug on the cord. The JESLA is pricey, however—some folks may not have it in their budget to spend nearly $1K on an EVSE, no matter how portable it is. They are coming out with a lower-cost option that will be a similar design that’s not so portable, as I understand it, called the JAMP JR, but it won’t be available until March or so. For those who prefer portability, having a cord instead of a big box on the wall, and the flexibility of changing plugs, these cord-based EVSEs sound like a good thing.

thanks for the info. Sorry for the lack of knowledge inquiry. Im still learning!

1K is a little pricey, I ended up ordering the Juicebox40.

Ill just wait to buy a tesla so the cord comes with it!

 

[currentlydriving]

Thanks for the information about Tesla and the adapters, Miimura—good to know! Since you have a RAV4 EV as well as an e-Golf, a JESLA sounds like a very good choice, as you’re able not only to take advantage of the full 9.6 kW charging, but also be able to use different plugs in various locations if you take longer trips (since you have more range to work with than with the e-Golf). But that’s too bad that the less-common plugs are turning into unobtanium at Tesla. I wonder if the shortage is only temporary or if they’re taking those plug adapters off the market altogether?

 

[miimura]

Thanks for the information about Tesla and the adapters, Miimura—good to know! Since you have a RAV4 EV as well as an e-Golf, a JESLA sounds like a very good choice, as you’re able not only to take advantage of the full 9.6 kW charging, but also be able to use different plugs in various locations if you take longer trips (since you have more range to work with than with the e-Golf). But that’s too bad that the less-common plugs are turning into unobtanium at Tesla. I wonder if the shortage is only temporary or if they’re taking those plug adapters off the market altogether?

They backtracked a little. The 10-30's are available again at the Service Centers, but I worry that they are just allowing the inventory to be depleted instead of holding them back for special requests. Tesla really needs to make an effort to keep ALL the adapters available going forward. I still think that the fact that they are not continuing to produce some of the adapters is evidence that they will produce an improved version that will use different adapters.

 

[nsayer]

EVSEs don't need a neutral. Depending on the length of the run, not running that fourth wire might save you a measurable amount of money.

Neutrals are used by appliances (like electric dryers) that have some parts that run on 120v (the drum motor) and some that run on 240v (the heating coils). EVSEs run on straight 208/220/240VAC (we're not including in that the L1 "emergency" EVSEs). I haven't taken apart a Tesla model, but I suspect they chose a 14-50 plug simply because they figured 14-50 receptacles were more common in the wild (they're common at RV parks, for instance).

I had our electrician install a 40A circuit and a 6-50 receptacle. In retrospect, I do wish I'd gone with a 50A circuit to make it a bit future-proof, but I'm not unhappy about it. The 6-50 mated with our original Siemens EVSE, but that only lasted a few months before I started building my own EVSEs.

 

[miimura]

EVSEs don't need a neutral. Depending on the length of the run, not running that fourth wire might save you a measurable amount of money.

Neutrals are used by appliances (like electric dryers) that have some parts that run on 120v (the drum motor) and some that run on 240v (the heating coils). EVSEs run on straight 208/220/240VAC (we're not including in that the L1 "emergency" EVSEs). I haven't taken apart a Tesla model, but I suspect they chose a 14-50 plug simply because they figured 14-50 receptacles were more common in the wild (they're common at RV parks, for instance).

I had our electrician install a 40A circuit and a 6-50 receptacle. In retrospect, I do wish I'd gone with a 50A circuit to make it a bit future-proof, but I'm not unhappy about it. The 6-50 mated with our original Siemens EVSE, but that only lasted a few months before I started building my own EVSEs.

It's true that EVSEs don't need a neutral and the Tesla Mobile Connector has nothing connected to the Neutral pin. However, if you ever want to install the 14-50 socket so that you can use the Tesla Mobile Connector, you must have the Neutal wire connected to be up to code.

 

[nsayer]

However, if you ever want to install the 14-50 socket so that you can use the Tesla Mobile Connector, you must have the Neutal wire connected to be up to code.

A cheaper option would be to install a 6-50R and either modify the TMC (replace the plug) or build a plug adapter. The latter is fairly easy to do with parts you can get at Home Depot. I did it the opposite way once upon a time to take my old Siemens Versicharge on a trip to a destination that had 14-50Rs instead of 6-50Rs.

You'd need to put a label on the adapter making it clear that it was for EVSE use only and had no neutral.

Another trick for EVSEs is that you can build them with 14-50 plugs, but leave out the neutral pin entirely (or cut it off). If you do that, the resulting plug will fit in a 14-20, 14-30 or 14-50 receptacle (albeit with no neutral, of course).

Note that the NEC stops at the receptacle. The NEC has nothing to say about what you plug in. That's where UL takes over, but UL in and of itself doesn't have the weight of law the same way the NEC (generally) does.

 

[mvolta]

I got the Juicebox EVSE 40 AMP recently and plugged it into my dryer outlet. SO far so good. total cost was 500$. The juicebox is a 14-50. The dryer outlet i have is a 30 AMP 10-30, but I got an adapter from the juicebox 10-30 to 14-50 and viola. I know the receptical is lower then the 40 AMP. but with my 3.6 SE the max amps coming out of there is 16A.

 

[miimura]

I got the Juicebox EVSE 40 AMP recently and plugged it into my dryer outlet. SO far so good. total cost was 500$. The juicebox is a 14-50. The dryer outlet i have is a 30 AMP 10-30, but I got an adapter from the juicebox 10-30 to 14-50 and viola. I know the receptical is lower then the 40 AMP. but with my 3.6 SE the max amps coming out of there is 16A.

Make sure that you set the JuiceBox for a 30A circuit so it will give a 24A pilot signal. If you plug in a different car that has a more powerful on-board charger you could overload that 10-30 circuit.

 

[mvolta]

I got the Juicebox EVSE 40 AMP recently and plugged it into my dryer outlet. SO far so good. total cost was 500$. The juicebox is a 14-50. The dryer outlet i have is a 30 AMP 10-30, but I got an adapter from the juicebox 10-30 to 14-50 and viola. I know the receptical is lower then the 40 AMP. but with my 3.6 SE the max amps coming out of there is 16A.

Make sure that you set the JuiceBox for a 30A circuit so it will give a 24A pilot signal. If you plug in a different car that has a more powerful on-board charger you could overload that 10-30 circuit.

oh yes good call, I forgot to mention I adjusted the trim pot on the EVSE to 30A!!!

 

[JoulesThief]

I got the Juicebox EVSE 40 AMP recently and plugged it into my dryer outlet. SO far so good. total cost was 500$. The juicebox is a 14-50. The dryer outlet i have is a 30 AMP 10-30, but I got an adapter from the juicebox 10-30 to 14-50 and viola. I know the receptical is lower then the 40 AMP. but with my 3.6 SE the max amps coming out of there is 16A.

Make sure that you set the JuiceBox for a 30A circuit so it will give a 24A pilot signal. If you plug in a different car that has a more powerful on-board charger you could overload that 10-30 circuit.

oh yes good call, I forgot to mention I adjusted the trim pot on the EVSE to 30A!!!

You need to set the pot to a maximum of 24 amps, not 30 amps. Since this circuit is constant draw, a maximum of 80% of the rated circuit at the circuit breaker is allowed, which is 24 amps on a 30 amp circuit breaker on a 10-30. This is just in case you plug in any other car, so you don't burn your house down, with an electrical fire.

 

[kjhansen]

I have a 2019 e-Golf SE and I haven't been able to get either the "departure time" or "off peak" charging to work.

Most of the time the charging will start as soon as the plug is connected. Other times the charger will cycle on and off every few minutes; really clicking but no power delivered.

I have a Clipper Creek HCS-40. I have contacted Clipper Creek about this. They sent me a bunch of suggestions but none of them worked.

Does anyone have an update on this? This is now 4 years after these initial posts; hopefully there is an update.

Thank you.

 

[msvphoto]

I have a 2019 e-Golf SE and I haven't been able to get either the "departure time" or "off peak" charging to work.

Most of the time the charging will start as soon as the plug is connected. Other times the charger will cycle on and off every few minutes; really clicking but no power delivered.

I have a Clipper Creek HCS-40. I have contacted Clipper Creek about this. They sent me a bunch of suggestions but none of them worked.

Does anyone have an update on this? This is now 4 years after these initial posts; hopefully there is an update.

Thank you.

There was a problem with Clipper Creek EVSEs and the 2015 eGolfs. The problem was apparently on VW's side of things because an updated module fixed the problem. I had this done under warranty just after purchasing our 2015 SEL used and it is been flawless with our HCS-40 ever since.

Not sure how this symptom reared it's ugly head again with 2019s assuming this is the same issue as before (which it may not be). Have you asked VW about this? There was a known "fix" for the 2015s that was implemented 2016 and later. Somewhere in this forum is a scan of a service receipt documenting exactly what was done to correct this on a 2015 which several folks have used to help get this fixed back in the day.