Charging battery in cold weather?

[egolf39]

I just got a delivery of my brand new 2017 e-golf! I am loving it!
I just want to clarify some tips about preserving battery life. I recently came across this: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/263036/why-charging-li-ion-batteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them

It claims charging battery in cold weather will permanently damage it. Is this true? I live in Canada, and will have -20 degree winter days coming, and don't have indoor garage. Am I screwed?

 

[JoulesThief]

I just got a delivery of my brand new 2017 e-golf! I am loving it!
I just want to clarify some tips about preserving battery life. I recently came across this: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/263036/why-charging-li-ion-batteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them

It claims charging battery in cold weather will permanently damage it. Is this true? I live in Canada, and will have -20 degree winter days coming, and don't have indoor garage. Am I screwed?

Do you really think VW would sell an e-Golf in Norway or Canada if the battery could get damaged recharging in your local temperatures? How about you read the owners manual and see what it says regarding temperatures and recharging.

 

[egolf39]

My owner's manual does say that if leaving car parked in -27C or below temperature can freeze battery and cannot start electric motor, but does not say anything about not able to charge the battery. I guess, it's rare to see -27C temperature here, I try to charge it during the day when it is warm.

 

[JoulesThief]

My owner's manual does say that if leaving car parked in -27C or below temperature can freeze battery and cannot start electric motor, but does not say anything about not able to charge the battery. I guess, it's rare to see -27C temperature here, I try to charge it during the day when it is warm.

Then you should be good. The battery does generate a little bit of heat itself as it recharges.

 

[Junkyarddogs]

I have not run into any problems will cold damaging the battery. Our egolf regularly sees minus zero temperatures. I was concerned last winter as the range was diminished in the cold weather. Once the temperatures warmed up our range returned to normal. We normally charge to 82 miles, today at -19F full charge was only 44.

 

[Kosta]

I have not seen any issues yet charging this winter - flo charger in garage - car sits outside all day at work - range has dropped on display by 40-50 ks full charge shows 161 k range - but it is not driven that far B4 charging on weekend off peak - might go 90 kilometres for the week

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The battery is heated during charging in the cold. So, it is not harming the battery. It uses a bit more electricity, is all.

 

[Icculus]

I live in Toronto and have had my 2017 e-golf for 10 weeks. I have had no problem charging over night at -22c. The range, on the other hand, really goes down. My worst was 80km on a full charge (with heat on), but when it is below -15c I usually get 110km showing for a full charge.

 

[holychristian]

So what exactly makes the range drop so much? Is it simply batteries are less efficient in cold? Is it all heat based? What if the heat is off? I'm picking mine up in a few weeks and am concerned if I get less than 100km.

 

[Rsolaregolf]

increased tire rolling resistance, denser air to push out of the way, stiffer lube in bearing, snow tires if your using them, defroster, seat heat, etc

 

[miimura]

So what exactly makes the range drop so much? Is it simply batteries are less efficient in cold? Is it all heat based? What if the heat is off? I'm picking mine up in a few weeks and am concerned if I get less than 100km.

By far the largest effect is cabin heating. If you are willing to bundle up and forego cabin heat after you unplug the car, then you will be able to drive much further. Heating the cabin while the car is plugged in before you leave is very important. However, if you don't have a charging stations available at work, you will still have to take the range hit to get the car warmed up a little for the trip back home. On a simple 50km to work and 50km back home, you should always make it. If you pre-heat the car before you leave, you should not have to use more than 40% of the battery in the morning, leaving 60% to heat the car and get you back home.

The absolute worst thing to do is to make lots of short trips in one day with the car cooling down between each trip and running the heat. In that case, the total range could certainly be less than 100km on a 2017 in -10C weather.

 

[egolf39]

It's not just cabin heating. It uses less than 5kW even at peak. Average should be 3 kW if you have heatpump. This is -15C here last week in Ontario Canada
Majority of range loss is from battery losing efficiency at cold temperature. Even if I turn off climate control with "OFF" button, the oeverall range is still reduced to 120 km from 200

 

[egolf39]

If cabin heating drains so much energy it got me thinking that they should have a seperate heating system that burns fossil fuel such as kerosene or even gasoline just for heating. As burning oil for heating is much more efficient than electrical as energy density of oil is 10x that of battery, and almost all of that energy is directly converted to heat. So even with a small tank 5L of heating oil / kerosene, should last for days.

 

[dephan]

The most important ( and dangerous ) for fossil oil or gas ( propane ) heater is carbon mono & dioxide generates if you heat inside the car when all window close. That the way some people use for suicide . But id you open window, heat will loss & cold will flush inside.
Unless you use the system outside (put it in engine compartment ) and drain ( transfer ) the heat to inside ( like the water radiant heating in house ).
I thinking to design a system like this, but the cost about $400 and need the hardware install.
Other better & easy way is using electrical ( battery 12V ) heating.
The system will need 1 AGM deep cycle battery 120 Ah , the charger & 12V 800W heater. Total cost about $1000.
But the battery ( about $500 ) only last 3 years, max is 4 years. So the
cost / year quite high.
For longer life battery, have to use Li Ion battery, but the cost more than $1000 for 6-10 years.
So solution for us in cold climate sub freezing is : if the reduce range still adequate for both ways every day driving, let it be. The sub zero weather only about 30 days per year, the less cold, the more range we have.

 

[dephan]

About the range when sub zero weather : The display range reduce very much not because the battery gets cold.
The capacity reduce is little, but the car display the " assumption" range in that cold.
The computer calculate the cold degree, the speed you drive, the power to heat the cabin, then give you the " assumption range " as if you drive in that condition.
ie. you starting by 40 Km ( 30 miles ) /h, so if you drive 80 km in 2 hours, the heating will " eat" battery 2 hours, then out.
But if you go on highway 120 km/h, heating eats 1 hour energy so you can drive 30 kms more ( in 10 minutes )to total 150 kms.
Even you turn off all the heating, the computer still " thinks & assumes" the same way ( stupid thinking ? right? ) or maybe it is good thinking because it thinks we have to turn on the heating anyway!.

 

[Kosta]

this is the charge summary my Flo unit generates


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Station name: AAE-00856
Session start date: 2018-01-07 13:15:51
Session end date: 2018-01-07 15:47:08
Energy used: 12.095 kWh
Session duration: 02:31:17 sec.
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